More air for hardwood pellets?

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blackbear219

Member
Oct 31, 2011
36
Maine
I have an Englander 25-PDVC.

I am burning Maine Woods blended pellet...65% hard and 35% soft. I feel like I am not getting nearly as much heat out of these pellets as I should be, and I am wondering if I need to tweak the settings on my stove a bit. I burned a few bags of my father in laws Okanagans and they were INSANELY HOT compared to what I am getting right now. It seems like the default settings on the stove are perfect for those, but not so much for my pellets. It got really cold here over the weekend and we had the feed rate cranked up to 9 all day Sunday and we stayed warm but I still wasn't impressed after seeing how much heat I got out of the Oakies.

The Maine Woods website says this:
Lower the feed rate of your stove. Hardwood pellets burn longer than softwood pellets. If you see glowing pellet embers falling into your ash pan, you are feeding it too fast.
Increase the amount of air. More air will supply more oxygen to the fire and make the pellets burn hotter and more completely.

Specifically, I am looking at the "if you see glowing pellet embers" part. I do see those in my stove. They are flying up and into the ash pan all the time, so I am thinking that I am not set to get a full burn on this type of fuel.

When I was burning the Oakies I couldn't put my hand in front of the stove without having to pull it away while saying "Damn, that's hot!". With the MWP, I just get some warm air coming out and I can put my hand as close to the stove as I want without it overheating me. The difference is that extreme.

Currently, my settings for the "3 magic buttons" at the bottom of the control board are the default, which I believe is 6-4-1. What I would like to try to do is go down to a feed rate of 1 or 2 (so that the lower button settings take effect) and tweak them a bit to get a more complete, and hotter, burn. But what should I try? 5-5-1 for less feed, more air? 4-6-1?
 
First off MWP vs. Oakies. Is comparing night and day, two completly different pellets.

The glowing embers question. If they are flying up and out of the burn pot they close to spent already.
If they sit in the ash pan and glow for extended periods then, you may have adjustments to make.
 
The first button is the fuel feed rate. The second is the burn pot air. The third is the stir auger setting 1 usually works in all situations for that.

I'd lower the feed rate to 2 or 3 and raise the air rate to 9. You really have to play with these for each fuel brand used. I'm not 100% sure but I believe the setting of 9 on the heat range bypasses the settings on the bottom 3 buttons for safety reasons. You may not want to use the 9 setting on the heat range.
 
First let me say that IMHO... All pellets are different and all stoves are differnt. Stoves being the same, I will not get the same results as you even if burning the same pellet...

That being said your "Maine Woods blended pellet" are 65% hard wood (oak) and 35% soft wood (pine). So 35% of you wood is giving off considerably less heat BTU's than the other 65%. So if you change to 100% hard wood (oak) you will get more heat.

You will have to tweek the air setting to get the max burn out of either one.
 
dave1959 said:
That being said your "Maine Woods blended pellet" are 65% hard wood (oak) and 35% soft wood (pine). So 35% of you wood is giving off considerably less heat BTU's than the other 65%. So if you change to 100% hard wood (oak) you will get more heat.

That is not true. The BTU output is similar for both hard and softwoods. Many 100% softwood pellets are just as hot or hotter than the hardwoods.
He was comparing them to OAKIES, 100% softwood and smoking HOT and they over powered his blended pellet and all its "hardwood".

But back the OP's original question/thread topic "air". Sometimes different pellets will require minor air adjustments for a better burn.
 
I have found that the species the pellets are made from is less important than the bulk density/size of the fuel. I adjust my draft air to keep a consistent burn. A flame that is dieing out(lean) and then growing produces less heat than a constent burn. Can't go too far or it will be too rich and lazy. I can also do the fine tuning with my feed rate if need be. Draft air is my first step in tweaking.

But many stoves only have feed rate adjustments and draft air is not adjustable. Some only have draft air adjustment and the feed rate is fixed. So what I am doing doesn't apply to all. You'll have to tweak with the feed rate for the rich/lean conditions.

A properly tuned stove is similar to a car. Once tuned up, It will give great horsepower(heat output) along with good fuel mileage(length of burn).
 
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.
 
j-takeman said:
I have found that the species the pellets are made from is less important than the bulk density/size of the fuel. I adjust my draft air to keep a consistent burn. A flame that is dieing out(lean) and then growing produces less heat than a constent burn. Can't go too far or it will be too rich and lazy. I can also do the fine tuning with my feed rate if need be. Draft air is my first step in tweaking.

But many stoves only have feed rate adjustments and draft air is not adjustable. Some only have draft air adjustment and the feed rate is fixed. So what I am doing doesn't apply to all. You'll have to tweak with the feed rate for the rich/lean conditions.

A properly tuned stove is similar to a car. Once tuned up, It will give great horsepower(heat output) along with good fuel mileage(length of burn).

Jay...regarding draft air tweaking. Always been reluctant to adjust this for fear of losing the original setting and messing up with what may or may not be broken, not to mention I don't have a mag gauge. Although my flame (with my limited knowledge) appears to be lazy at time and my tweak for this has been to increase the combustion air. Sometimes the flame still appears dirty (burning high on one side) so I'm thinking it may be time to try and play with the draft a bit.

Question is can the draft be adjusted with the stove operating or is this something you should do after shutting down and un-plugging. I would think this adjustment would be much easier "real-time" with the stove running.

Sorry to the OP if I've hijacked your thread for my own personal gain!! - Joe
 
dave1959 said:
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.

Please correct for weight per cord. Since that is effectively what turning them into pellets does along with really ringing out the moisture content.
 
dave1959 said:
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.

I've never seen pellets sold by the cord... give us the BTU per pound, wise guy.

You started it.
 
Wachusett said:
First off MWP vs. Oakies. Is comparing night and day, two completly different pellets.

The glowing embers question. If they are flying up and out of the burn pot they close to spent already.
If they sit in the ash pan and glow for extended periods then, you may have adjustments to make.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. This is my first season so I am just trying to make sure that I am doing my due diligence to get the most out of my fuel.

Point taken on MWP not being Oakies. I realize Oakies are hot little buggers and that my MWP are simply not as hot, but I also do believe that my MWP could be burning hotter.

On lunch break, I went down to 1 on the feed rate and adjusted the LFF and LBA from 6-4 to 5-6. Just playing around with the number of pellets feeding and the air to see if I can get a more complete or hotter burn. The problem is, if I dial this in I am kind of restricted to one heat setting :p

Long story short, I can't wait until my MWP are gone.
 
76brian said:
dave1959 said:
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.

I've never seen pellets sold by the cord... give us the BTU per pound, wise guy.

You started it.

Not sure there is such a statistic...Although as per this website "There are a number of variations in pellet fuels that are not included in PFI standards. For example, Btu (heat) content may range from just under 8,000 to almost 9,000 Btu, depending upon species and region of the country."

My information was in answer to the OP's question of why his "blened pellets" do not feel as hot as his "all hardwood" pellets
 
whlago said:
j-takeman said:
I have found that the species the pellets are made from is less important than the bulk density/size of the fuel. I adjust my draft air to keep a consistent burn. A flame that is dieing out(lean) and then growing produces less heat than a constent burn. Can't go too far or it will be too rich and lazy. I can also do the fine tuning with my feed rate if need be. Draft air is my first step in tweaking.

But many stoves only have feed rate adjustments and draft air is not adjustable. Some only have draft air adjustment and the feed rate is fixed. So what I am doing doesn't apply to all. You'll have to tweak with the feed rate for the rich/lean conditions.

A properly tuned stove is similar to a car. Once tuned up, It will give great horsepower(heat output) along with good fuel mileage(length of burn).

Jay...regarding draft air tweaking. Always been reluctant to adjust this for fear of losing the original setting and messing up with what may or may not be broken, not to mention I don't have a mag gauge. Although my flame (with my limited knowledge) appears to be lazy at time and my tweak for this has been to increase the combustion air. Sometimes the flame still appears dirty (burning high on one side) so I'm thinking it may be time to try and play with the draft a bit.

Question is can the draft be adjusted with the stove operating or is this something you should do after shutting down and un-plugging. I would think this adjustment would be much easier "real-time" with the stove running.

Sorry to the OP if I've hijacked your thread for my own personal gain!! - Joe

My stove doesn't have combustion trim. So I use the damper. You should be safe using the combustion trim for tweaking. I wouldn't mess with the damper if you don't have too.
 
dave1959 said:
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.

Once pelletized both species are pretty darn equal IMHO. You can make a softwood denser than a hardwood and vise a versa!

What you look for in pellets is the bulk density. Basically that's what your adjusting for. Size, Density and Moisture to be more specific.

Some think the softwoods contain a resin in the fiber that also add's heat to the mix. But I will not go there as it becomes a big debate once stated!
 
j-takeman said:
dave1959 said:
Wachusett...
Not to get into a manly sqirting contest but as per U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Weights and Measures ....

White oak....24.2 MBTU per cord
Eastern White pine 13.2 MBTU per cord.

Once pelletized both species are pretty darn equal IMHO. You can make a softwood denser than a hardwood and vise a versa!

What you look for in pellets is the bulk density. Basically that's what your adjusting for. Size, Density and Moisture to be more specific.

Some think the softwoods contain a resin in the fiber that also add's heat to the mix. But I will not go there as it becomes a big debate once stated!


Yeh, I can see that so I will bow out now...Next topic please..
 
Is it true that an Englander has to be "rebooted" for changes to the lower 3 buttons to take effect? I was playing with the LBA at lunch and I swear I could notice the difference in flame height/burn rate immediately while the stove was running. If you can't change them on the fly, that would take a lot of time and be a major PITA to tweak these.
 
I have two of the same stoves as you do...and they can be tweaked on the fly..Those lower settings will only effect things on the upper settings, on the lower ranges...I hope that makes sense to you..About pellets: this is what both of my stoves are set on for Hamers Elkins WV plant, which are a hardwood and hot pellet...Low fuel feed 3 or 4..Low burn air...2.. I then usually run the stoves upper settings at Heat range 3 blower speed at 5...I change when it gets really cold...Experimenting,patiently...yeah right...Got me to this point...The pellets burn well,heat well, don't make an inordinate amount of ash..Hope this helps ya..
 
h2ochild said:
I have two of the same stoves as you do...and they can be tweaked on the fly..Those lower settings will only effect things on the upper settings, on the lower ranges...I hope that makes sense to you..About pellets: this is what both of my stoves are set on for Hamers Elkins WV plant, which are a hardwood and hot pellet...Low fuel feed 3 or 4..Low burn air...2.. I then usually run the stoves upper settings at Heat range 3 blower speed at 5...I change when it gets really cold...Experimenting,patiently...yeah right...Got me to this point...The pellets burn well,heat well, don't make an inordinate amount of ash..Hope this helps ya..

Thanks for the info. Ya, I guess those lower settings only come into play when the heat is set on 1 or 2. I get how it works now, but it's kinda weird. These MWP aren't hot enough to be able to put it on 1/2 and still keep the house warm when it is cold out (gotta be on at least 6) so I guess I don't even really need to worry about the lower settings if I'm not even going to be down there anyways.

I'm gonna shop around town and pick up a few different kinds of pellets to experiment with how they burn. If anyone is looking for MWP in the Bangor, Maine area I'm selling cheap :)
 
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