modular vs mobile home standards

[oldgrezmonke]

i am looking to buy a home. some of the homes i have looked at are so-called "modular" homes. in looking at woodstove offerings i have seen some that are described as "NOT for use in mobile home" does anyone know if modular homes are built to standards that would allow the installation of any UL listed stove , or , am i limited only to those stoves listed as mobile home approved. i am interested not only in a wood heating stove but also a wood cook stove. i cannot find a wood cook stove that is "mobile home approved".

 

[Jags]

I believe that you will find most "modular" homes to fall in to the category of stick built homes. That is really what they are, just mostly put together in their warehouse and then delivered.

 

[Metal]

Read this- (broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1985_September_October/Woodstoves_and_Mobile_Home_Safety)

 

[Sandor]

Interesting. I "built" about a dozen modular homes in the last 3 years.

During this time, Clayton Homes and others "of mobile home fame" started to come out with "Modular Homes".

The Modular Home business, switched the name of their homes to "Systems Built" homes.

Now, the original modular homes, were just like stick built homes, but built much beefier to survive transport and setting. Like double 2x10 rim joists. The new modular homes by Clayton still have steel underneath, but usually 2x8 floor joists. The lines get very blury.

The bottom line is: Mobile homes are built to a Federal HUD code, and modulars are built to State/Local codes. That is the difference.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Mobile home stoves have to have a outside air kit avalible . Thats what makes a stove, "mobile home approved"

 

[drizler]

One thing is for sure, mobile homes just plain suck and there is just no other way to put it. A modular is built with the same basic stick built specs according to where it is built to be placed. I have a modular since 95 and find it like any other house. I also have a trailer, yes there is no better word for it, which I rent out nowdays. Having owned it since 84 and having enjoyed all the repairs of the crap materials I know of which I speak. Stay far away unless you can't afford anything else. About all a trailer does well is burn down. THey do that with fantastic regularity.

 

[G-rott]

Stay away from anything with a steel frame. Modulars are not all built to the same code.

Some are good, most are not. I really hope for more truth in advertising.

Good luck,
Garett

 

[elkimmeg]

If I may: Modular homes are set on concrete foundation mobile homes on concrete blocks or spacers


the only difference of modular homes and stick built one is done onsite the modular is essembled at the factory
Modular homes follow the same code as every single familly dewlling. Inspectors are present to inspect them at the factory before concelment.
When the arrive on site they are stamped and approved Our inspections consist of the connections made on site and nothing in the sealed interior walls
Naturally we require receiving all stamped aprovals all documentation and spprovals before we will issue a permit.
as for installing a wood stove the same single fammilly mechanical codes apply to as with any other simgle familly dwelling

Modile homes are a completely different catagory not to be consufes with modular. In our town they are not an allowed uses as in many towns.
If any existed before zoning regs they are grand fathered. In our area land cost makes mobile home parks cost prohibited. I have not seen one new park in 25 years

 

[drizler]

Once again this time with gusto."DON'T BE STUPID STAY AWAY FROM TRAILERS" Repeat that 100 times in rapid succession followed by "NOTHING BURNS LIKE A TRAILER" There now its off my chest and you can do what you please. You are never too poor with todays interest rates to buy a house or modular. Sorry but there is just nothing good to be said for them, nothing. You can get a cheap modular and build from it as you like when and as you get the money but with a trailer the best you get is the first day. Its all down hill after that. Then try to sell the thing. You wouldnt' believe the offers I got. $100 / week"when I am workin" to "I like his place. See them red squirrels, thems good eatin".. Everything but real steady cash. Would you want to hold the note for a white trash hill billy? None of em have any money nor can they get any from any lending source. Be afraid, be very afraid. Don't say you weren't warned. Hey you wouldn't want to buy mine would you? 1984 Titan slightly used and currently occupied by the Beverley Hillbillies; CHEAP!

 

[tundraSQ]

Once again this time with gusto."DON'T BE STUPID STAY AWAY FROM TRAILERS" Repeat that 100 times in rapid succession followed by "NOTHING BURNS LIKE A TRAILER" There now its off my chest and you can do what you please. You are never too poor with todays interest rates to buy a house or modular. Sorry but there is just nothing good to be said for them, nothing. You can get a cheap modular and build from it as you like when and as you get the money but with a trailer the best you get is the first day. Its all down hill after that. Then try to sell the thing. You wouldnt' believe the offers I got. $100 / week"when I am workin" to "I like his place. See them red squirrels, thems good eatin".. Everything but real steady cash. Would you want to hold the note for a white trash hill billy? None of em have any money nor can they get any from any lending source. Be afraid, be very afraid. Don't say you weren't warned. Hey you wouldn't want to buy mine would you? 1984 Titan slightly used and currently occupied by the Beverley Hillbillies; CHEAP!

SO...say couple earns 60k a year and has no money saved...they have a a couple kids and maybe some pets..and one of them loses a job. Rent was say 900 a month...they can no longer afford to rent the house they were living in....

can THEY buy a house? Be careful when you say that anyone can afford to buy a house.

Its not the cost of the dwelling that is going to price you out of a modular...its the cost of land. Which lends buying a mobile home on leased land much more affordable to some people.

BTW I am not talking about me here....I live a very nice modular home recently appraised at almost 400k. And my pellet stove is doing fine

 

[laynes69]

Anyone can buy a home. Our first house we bought was 59000 I was 18 never tried to rent. I bought our home total household income was 25,000 a year. 4 1/2 years later sold our first home, made 12000 dollars put it into our second home 90,000 dollars. Both my wife and I are 25 we have 2 kids 2, and 5 and our household income was about 35,000. Its all on how you manage your money. People always ask us how come we have so much. We can some food, we have 5 acres, and we cut and burn wood. You work hard to support your family and you watch how you spend, a 1.00 can and will go a long ways if treated correctly. My brother spent 165,000 on 2 acres and a new 1900 square feet modular put a basement on it and it has been nothing but problems for that past 6 years. If its all you can afford and you are going to own it, why not. Just look into some upgrades on quality. My brother will probably never see a return on his investment. Its a shame. Forgot to add the 12000 we put into this house has earned us about 60,000 dollars equity. It has taken me a year to renovate this home. It dont matter on age or income, Its how you spend you money.

 

[Sandor]

By the way, if your looking at (real) modular homes, consider stick built.

On the last modular I set, the shipping, crane fee and set crew alone would have bought the lumber package and foundation.

I, myself, will never do a modular again.

 

[tundraSQ]

when I bought my modular (2000) It cost me 41 per square foot delivered, and buying stick built I was quoted $125 sq ft, Not sure where the numbers are today.

 

[Sandor]

when I bought my modular (2000) It cost me 41 per square foot delivered, and buying stick built I was quoted $125 sq ft, Not sure where the numbers are today.

You lucked out. Starting in late 2004, the fuel surcharges, lumber surcharges and price increases have closed the gap. Delivered price on my last one was about 80 bucks. Thats before the crane and crew. Price increases were coming every 60 days or so from that point forward.

I can hire a framing crew for 10 bucks a foot. They are drunk and on crack, but the framing is good. Don't want them sober!

 

[G-rott]

As I stated before, some are good most are not.

As to being built to the same code I know that in my area they are not. We have higher than normal snow load for roof systems, and an additional minimum insulation code that needs to be acheived.

As for "code", a structure built to meet code is the minimum acceptable when you are stick building. It does not make for a very nice home in most cases.

Modulars take this a step further by being engineered to a lower standard, and stamped.
The engineer takes the "risk" and probably is covered by the Modular Co.'s insurance against failure.

This is how on a site built "home" when 2x10 floor joist, 5/8" floor and roof sheathing and 2x4 over 2x4 trusses are minimum, the same size modular gets away with 2x8 joist, 1/2" subfloor and 7/16" roof sheathing on 2x4 trusses with 1x3 or 2x3 web.

Lets not even get started on interior trim packages, wiring and insulation.

Some (read FEW) modulars are as we built or better than stick built, very few.

Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for.

Garett

 

[laynes69]

My brothers had plastic fixtures for the tub that were chrome coated. All the windows leaked, the ceiling texturing was coming off in sheets. He had a full crack between the walls and ceiling the whole run of the home hidden behind crown moulding. The ductwork looked like an aluminum pie pan. The countertops seperated from the backsplash and he lost half of his shingles during some 35 mph winds. I could go on and on. Its his experience why I wouln't get a modular home. They look great when new, but live in one for a few years and they look poor then. Everything in his is breaking down. Its a little better than living in a cardboard box.

 

[hilly]

Its a little better than living in a cardboard box.

That reminds me of one of the lines from the Monty Python skit "the four Yorkshiremen" !

 

[drizler]

Modulars are like any other house. If you get the cheap stuff you are going to bleed. I got a good one and having torn all through it in the last 12 years its just like any other house. I haven't seen anyplace where I could honestly say "those dirty bastards". The only thing that went to hell fairly quickly was the carpet and that was major mfg stainmaster and I saw the tags. All the plumbing is Delta and it's all still there except for the kitchen faucet which I have replaced for my own reasons. The major difference between a trailer and a modular is the way its all installed. Trailer plumbing is ok till it breaks then replacement is damned expensive to replace the same junk. Everything is marked way up. About the only thing that is solid is the furnace. I have been working on mine alll these years and its every bit as good as the Peerless boiler in my basement, in fact most of the parts are interchangeabele and made by beckett. Last week I had to replace the blower motor in my good old rental trailer ( gotta keep the Clampetts warm ya know). After running nicely for 22 years I guess a new one was not much to ask. I called the trailer place and they said they could get me one for just under $200 and tax by next week. Knowing better I called the local small time electric motor repair. They got me a new Dayton and the guy put it in the squirrel cage and tested it for me and they wanted $107, $102 if I paid cash. Try replacing a trailer door. They are dear and made of 2 by 2's and fiberglass with foam core. The alternative is a $400+ custom door which isn't so swift either. I put a Stanley steel door in 15 years ago myself. The same door as I have on my modular actually. In spite of all the Hillbilly abuse, kick ins and a couple police altercations on the steps with clubs its still working fine. Putting it in was a night mare though. They are too tall and lots of cutting was in order. Same with the sliding glass door. The first thing you learn to do with a trailer is toss your level. You don't need it and its just going to drive you crazy, better to just use the wall paper print. Thats for most things anyways. The cheap bastards don't put a pan under it so when and I say WHEN it leaks you get 2 options depending on which way the trailer is leaning. If it leans outboard on the side where the tank sits great. All it does is rot the floor under it and if you are lucky it won't fall completely through the floor. Thats the cheap route. If it leans the other way ( my favorite from personal experience) it will drool for a long while till you notice the floor is a bit bouncy in the opposite hallway. Then you get to take a crash course in trailer floors 101. Nothing lines up and its not even all the new Its nasty but a real learning experience. The rest of the story is the rest of the floor, usually the bathroom which has also gotten wet and someday you will have to replace all that too. Thats a real treat but once finished its obvious how solid REAL plywood is compared to the crap particle board they use in all trailer floors. Call that trailer floor graduate studies. Then there is the roof. They love to leak. The first you will notice and all the damage really is : you guessed it the floor. That old springy feeling again and funny its always where everyone has to walk. More 3/4 ply and sawzall action. Also in the floor section we have furnace duct vents. They are cheap junk and odd sized, always placed where they will be stood on constantly. Replacing them is not a big deal at $7 each be it plastic or metal all are poor but cheap. The fun begins when the floor begins to break off around the edges and it starts falling inside. That can lead to some really creative fixes. Then there is the electrics. The boxes are ok as are the breakers, Standard stuff but oh those switches and outlets. They are just shoved into the cheap 1/2 " sheetrock walls and held by 2 adjacent ears which will tear out with todays tighter fitting polarized plugs. Those are painful to fix and you can't reallly do it right without a major hassle if at all. The last wonder of a trailer is the water line. Try to make that puppy not freeze. Use cheap heat tape and it won't work because its not hot enough. Use the mid grade hotter stuff and if your well shuts off it will melt your water line. Been there bought that T shirt too. In short just no way to really protect it like in a basement. Oh yes all the nice crawleys down there and I hate spiders. The neat plastic skirting works ok but its expensive and let the wind get into it and the stuff just starts strippin away in high winds. I used heavily treated T-111 and its ok except that it bows and flexes as the thing rides up and down with the frost. I keep it on with screws set in slots to compensate. Of course you can easily avoid that by making sure you put it on a full slab. Now after hearing all this happy crap and I swear its all true is there anyone who would plunk down good money for one of these things? Remember I paid a whopping $17K for mine and lived in it for 10 years then got my money back renting and depreciating it which is about as good as it gets. Forget that I tried to sell it 10 years back and no one could get a loan or had money and most didn't have a job ect. I was in a good position to deal with it all. Try that if you are leaving town for a new job right now, what then? They just suck period and in the end you have no equity.
As for modulars the one I hear described above is probably just a doublewide or a very similar cousin. Junk is out there both stick and modular but there are good ones if you look. With a trailer you are just fooling yourself all the way. Its cheap thats the only good thing to be said for it.

 

[Roospike]

Driz , Why dont you tell us how your really feel ?

I helped out gutting and rebuilding a trailer years back ........... Driz , you brought back bad memories.
No words , All i could do was shake my head when rebuilding the trailer, just unreal.

 

[loneeagle15]

I just have to laugh and say some of you are very lucky with how easy it is to get home loans and to be able to buy a house for so cheap in a neighborhood that is nice enough and safe enough to raise your kids in. Wow $59,000 for a good house is great around here that would buy you a siezed crack house in the worse part of town if you want a nice house with no land look at spending around $175,000. It's all on how you spend your $ to some point you are correct but try starting over with todays prices example my son and soon to be daughter inlaw are starting out hes 21 she is 20 she has no credit history he just paid off his 2006 motorcycle $8,500 on credit he has paid off his truck and car both on credit no late payments no dings nothing they both make descent wages for our area. They have $10,00 to put down The banks won't lend them the $ for a nice house in an area that is good but they can buy the $100,000 piece of junk that is in the highest crime area of the city. Wait or they can buy some land and a "trailer" abought 20 miles from the city. Which would you do put your wife and kids at risk or have quiet? Not to mention looking ahead to the future ya 5-10 years down the road the house won't be worth squat but what will the land be worth? After all I remember thinking $1,000 an acre was way too much to spend but now that the city is much larger I can sell my land for $50,000 an acre. That said go and try and see what is out there now a days that you would want to put your wife around and remember what gas cost 7 years ago not heating but to put in your car now try and fiqure out the costs when you were fresh out of school not with what you make now. I almost forgot foreclosure rates are on the rize big time so as property values go down because too many are on the market it makes it harder to get a loan. The value of any house will drop but not the value of the land
Just my 2 cents and go ahaead and bring on the rebuttals but hurry up and get outa debt in the next 10 years major depression coming

 

[thechimneysweep]

Differences in quality aside, the original question was about whether or not a woodstove installed in a modular home must be mobile home approved. All five code jurisdictions in our service area lump modular homes in with mobile homes, in the category "manufactured housing." Any woodstove installed in a modular home must be mobile home approved to HUD specs, and installed to the manufacturer's listed mobile home requirements. Final inspections are performed by the State L&I inspector, not the local inspector from the code jurisdiction in question.

Your mileage may vary. Consult with your local code authority and/or L&I office and see how they interpret the code. They'll have the final say about your proposed installation.

 

[DiscoInferno]

As to being built to the same code I know that in my area they are not. We have higher than normal snow load for roof systems, and an additional minimum insulation code that needs to be acheived.

As for "code", a structure built to meet code is the minimum acceptable when you are stick building. It does not make for a very nice home in most cases.

Modulars take this a step further by being engineered to a lower standard, and stamped.
The engineer takes the "risk" and probably is covered by the Modular Co.'s insurance against failure.

Not sure why you think this. We bought a somewhat customized modular (Wisconsin Homes) in 2003, and had to wait months for the State of Michigan to approve the plans. For Munising that includes even higher snow load requirements than Petosky. Our home is built like a tank.

Someone else mentioned prices going up, we paid about $65/sqft for 4 modules, shipping, and setting. Base rate (without upgrading things) would have been closer to $52. Seemed like a good deal at the time. It was built in 2-3 days, which was a major selling point to us at the time. But site prep, setting, and finishing took so long I doubt we saved much time in the end, and much of that was done half-assed.

The biggest drawback with a modular in my limited experience is the dealer. Think car dealer (for a really expensive car).

 

[oldgrezmonke]

gee i really started something didn't I ? in my situation a manufactured home [mobile,modular,sectional,added-on,whatever]in good conditon [livable] costs about the same as a site-built house in rather poor shape [to make livable add $10,000]. when you will only have about $29,000 total and no longer not enough income for a loan-your choices are limited, unless you want to live on a tiny city lot in a high-crime area. the homes i am looking at have already been in place a while and any "first few years" problems have been addressed.