Metal firebox removal help

[candyfactory2]

Hi all,

We have an old house (1930's) and we are replacing the existing fireplace which dates to 1977. I have no idea if there was a fireplace here prior to 1977 or if it was just added then. We've decided to re-do it and upon pulling back the 70's marble and lots of brick, we exposed this metal (pre-fab) fire box. The company we've purchased our new wood burning insert from has suggested we remove this metal firebox. Two q's:

a. I'm a tad concerned my chimney will collapse (I have no reason to believe it will, just seems like perhaps the insert is supporting it!). The fireplace company says it won't, that there is a header in there that is supporting the chimney and that the metal box just slides out. Is that right?

The bricks on top of the metal firebox are actually behind the lathe, which means they must have built the firebox from the exterior in, as there is a newer (1977) chimney build on the exterior of the house. I've attached pics, the chimney related to this is the newer, front one.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[bholler]

You are going to have allot of removing combustibles and rebuilding to do also. Usually metal fireboxes like that don't support much of anything but there is no way for me to know without inspecting

 

[begreen]

The metal form looks intact and in good condition. It looks ok to leave it in, repair the fireplace floor and install the insert with an insulated liner.

edit: bholler is correct, check clearances to combustibles for the insert. I thought that was brick on the side, but it looks like a horiz. stud midway up on each side.

 

[candyfactory2]

The metal form looks intact and in good condition. It looks ok to leave it in, repair the fireplace floor and install the insert with an insulated liner.

I agree. The fireplace co said if we wanted to put the fireplace in first, (and then build around it), we'd need to remove the insert.

 

[bholler]

I agree. The fireplace co said if we wanted to put the fireplace in first, (and then build around it), we'd need to remove the insert.

Why do they think the whole firebox needs removed?

 

[candyfactory2]

Why do they think the whole firebox needs removed?

They gave us two options: remove the existing box and they can put the new insert in FIRST (and we can build around it after) OR leave the existing box and then we'd have to build around the new one before it can be installed. Does that make sense?

 

[begreen]

I am wondering if there is a confusion in terms here? Instead of insert do you mean a zero-clearance fireplace? That is different from a wood-burning insert stove. The latter, an insert, goes into an existing fireplace.

A ZC fireplace would require the current fireplace box to be removed. My concern if it is for a ZC fireplace is that the current metal fireplace may be part of the structural support.

 

[candyfactory2]

A ZC fireplace would require the current fireplace box to be removed. My concern if it is for a ZC fireplace is that the current metal fireplace may be part of the structural support.

This is my concern. It's that I don't know what the current firebox is supporting. The unit that was quoted to go in after the current firebox was to be removed is a "36in Astria Ladera EPA Certified Wood Burning Fireplace, Front Open, Circulating".

The unit that was suggest and keeping the current firebox was a Regency CI1250 Wood Insert

Sorry for not knowing much about this, but hopefully you can help!

Ryan

 

[begreen]

OK, the Ladera is a ZC fireplace that would require a tear-out. The Regency CI1250 is a fireplace insert that would go in the existing setup. It would be much less expensive to install the Regency if that is large enough for what you want to heat.

 

[candyfactory2]

OK, the Ladera is a ZC fireplace. The Regency CI1250 is a fireplace insert. It would be much less expensive to install the Regency if that is large enough for what you want to heat.

Good to know. So given this situation, which would you choose? The difference in cost is about $1000, but with the Regency we'd need to set a new floor and clean it all up first.

With the Ladera I'm left to deal with the daunting task of removing this metal insert. What trade would be able to tell me if it's supporting- a mason? An engineer?

 

[begreen]

There is quite a difference between these two options. Something doesn't sound right about the price difference. Is that for just the fireplace or stove and not installation?

What is the goal here? Occasional fires on nights and weekends or actual heating with the insert or fireplace?

 

[candyfactory2]

There is quite a difference between these two options. Something doesn't sound right about the price difference.

What is the goal here? Occasional fires on nights and weekends or actual heating with the insert or fireplace?

The price difference may be that the Regency was a floor model, where the Ladera is not. The goal is occasional fires on evenings and weekends with the benefit of some extra heat in cold Ontario winters. Main heat is our gas furnace.

 

[begreen]

The Ladera needs to be installed with a metal chimney system. I'm not sure you would have enough room to run a class A chimney up the existing chimney. If not, the cost difference for installation could be huge.

 

[candyfactory2]

The Ladera needs to be installed with a metal chimney system. I'm not sure you would have enough room to run a class A chimney up the existing chimney. If not, the cost difference for installation could be huge.

That's great info, thank you. To be honest we weren't even considering the Ladera until my wife had a discussion with the shop owner. I think perhaps we'll stick with the Regency in the existing firebox. As others have mentioned, there is nothing wrong with it and it may cause me more headache to remove it and retrofit the metal chimney up there.