Masonry Heater/Pizza Oven Build

[byQ]

I attended the World of Concrete in Las Vegas, Nevada, last month. I assisted in the building of a small contraflow masonry heater. A pizza oven was built, too. I'm not a mason so I did some of the grunt work - mixing mortar, getting water, cutting bricks, etc..., but I did lay a few bricks and managed to "test" the finished pizza .

The heater was done in a couple of days. The core and the shell of the heater were built at the same time (on bigger heaters the core is built then the shell). This is 36" wide by 24" deep and stands about 6 feet tall. It is a room heater. Large flue tile, 24", cut in half were used for most of the side channels (top was fire brick). This heater is going to be tested and results are going to EPA. I guess the masonry heaters association is trying to get masonry heaters listed with the EPA.

Here is a brief description of the pictures. You can first see the flue tiles and common brick. Than the next few pictures are of the core. The flue tile grows vertically. Eventually the core is wrapped in cardboard. A cap is applied and the shell or outer bricks are mortared into place. A door is installed. This is a contraflow design - so the heat goes up vertically than goes 180 degrees and goes down, and than out the back. A pipe was put on the back and the little heater was fired up. Here are some pictures.

 

[DougA]

Looks butt ugly but the outside finish is always up to the discretion of the owner and in this case, it's for testing purposes only. Sure looks like an interesting few days in Vegas. Too bad you couldn't load it into the van and take it home. I'm still working out the advantage/disadvantage of the different designs (Russian/Finnish/etc.).

I'd sure like to see the test results when they are done. Keep us posted.

 

[Kosmik]

This book was really helpful to me as it traveled time and the world of heating with stone.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Masonry-Stoves-Rediscovering/dp/1890132098

When you talk advantages/disadvantages they seem to be very subjective. Each region has used one design for so long, that it is the best. I think, if properly sized/operated, they will all be pretty similar in efficiency/comfort.

If you want test results for different types, search more in that specific country where that particular style is made. Most all European countries (and Russia) have done extensive testings on design and emissions. For Europe is started in the Little Ice Age, for Russia is started in Post-Czar period. They have done much testing and the extensive use and tax credits for installation of these (even in cities) should tell us something.

So the information exists, just not in the steel country. The book is also really interesting for the contrast on history and how America became an iron/steel stove society and Europe a masonry one.

And then this book just gave me all sorts of pretty pictures to get the wheels turning on the possibilities when working with stone.
It features a lot of the N.American manufactures/masons, plus Tulikivi and others.
Tulikivi, while expensive, are sharp looking heaters.
http://www.amazon.com/Masonry-Heaters-Designing-Building-Living/dp/1603582134/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392836667&sr=1-1&keywords=masonry heaters

Too bad they used cardboard, just doesn't look professional...
Maybe fiberglass wrap next time {inside joke}

Thanks for sharing. EPA is going to have to look harder at them. Time tested and proven.

The biggest difference I have noticed is that contra flow and kachelofens work on heat moving the gases through the flue, where the Russian designs use what they call 'free gas movement', citing gravity as the assisting force in flue gas movement.
http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/kuznetsov/freegasprinciple.doc

Hope this helps, a subject I've been really interested in the last year (that and ground source heat pumps {I'm thinking a hybrid could work}...Really it's time for me to take some masonry courses/experience and look further into the science in case I get into design.

Soapstone, hands down, is the best facing material...But given cost/availability many types of stone will work, and even brick. In the Rocky Mountains we have a lot of granite, which is arguable a distant second to soapstone. Just have to account for the differences in heat capacity and retention/conduction. Bricks on the low end of retention, but the low cost and ease of construction, make them popular.

 

[byQ]

Yes, I learned quite a bit in 2 days and will build a masonry heater after I finish the house rough-in. I'm now confident I can get the job done, and the masons said to call or email if I had any questions. I am going to stretch out the above contraflow a little bit so it will be 35-45% larger. I have to because my door is larger.

Anyways, they also built a pizza oven at this Las Vegas gathering. It seemed more people were interested in the pizza oven than in the masonry heater. I think a lot of folks don't know what a masonry heater is but most know what a pizza oven is. Although I spent most of my time at the masonry heater build I occasionally went to the pizza oven build and snapped some photos. So here are some photos of the pizza oven build.

 

[Kosmik]

So I assume the head mason guy there was a MHA N.America member?

 

[byQ]

I learned that a pizza oven is built similar to a masonry heater but there are a few differences. Both a masonry heater and a pizza oven have an inner core made of fire bricks and an outer shell usually made from common bricks but like Doug said anything can be used. However on a pizza oven you don't want the heat to escape (like you do on a masonry heater) so you put a layer of insulation between the firebrick core and the shell. In these pictures it is the white granular stuff - perlite or vermiculite that is moistened. It helps hold the heat in. Finally, an outer layer of stucco is applied.

 

[byQ]

So I assume the head mason guy there was a MHA N.America member?

Ya, they were all members except for a couple of us. The MHA will be having their annual workshop in North Carolina in a month or two. A guy could learn a lot at one of these workshops.There are classes/workshops that are hands on building of different styles of masonry heaters as well as things like how to install doors and lay bricks. Also the MHA has free pizza oven plans on their website.

A couple of the guys at this Las Vegas build were from Colorado, too.

 

[Kosmik]

Ya, they were all members except for a couple of us. The MHA will be having their annual workshop in North Carolina in a month or two. A guy could learn a lot at one of these workshops.

Sure could...
Now if a guy could just get away for a week or two, and get the funds together.

:::"Classes are currently scheduled for:

• April 14-20, 2014 during annual meeting at Wildacres Retreat, Little Switzerland, N.C
• June 19-22, 2014 at Everett, Washington
• August 7-10, 2014 at Cummington, MA
• August 14-17, 2014 at Duluth, MN
• September 11-14, 2014 at Perth, Ontario

Cost: $600 for April 14-20, $800 for remaining dates. The course at the Annual Meeting is cheaper because you also have to pay to attend the annual meeting ($425 which includes lodging, meals, seminars, pizza party, workshops) and also membership ($75 for 6 months as an affiliate member). You will have supply lodging for the other courses. Lunch and refreshments are provided.":::

But I'm thinking like minded States gotta stick together.
WA in June sounds nice, should only rain half the time I'm there.
And if I'm lucky it will be the good type of rain: falling slightly sideways, with a bright sun in the sky...Which always made me wonder where the rain was coming from?

 

[byQ]

Kosmik,

I see on the MHA website they are looking for volunteers in your area to assist on the build of a small heater for a disabled Navajo woman. Matt is the mason volunteering to do this - he is a super nice guy. You might want to check it out. You might get delegated to grunt work (like I was) but it is still a great (and free) way to learn.

 

[Kosmik]

Word, was just on the site and missed it.
Sent him an email, for more specifics.

Time to start clearing my schedule...

 

[byQ]

This masonry heater would be a small sized room heater - 24" x 36" x ~6.5'

 

[alex14]

so can people build own there masonry heater without getting help of technical guy?

 

[DevilsBrew]

Wow. I missed this thread. Awesome!

I am considering finding a masonry workshop out East. So glad this topic is active here.

 

[byQ]

so can people build own there masonry heater without getting help of technical guy?

That is what I'm doing. It helps if you have hand skills - like in masonry but it isn't required. Also knowing how to use a level is vital. And know the North American requirements - 1) double skinned - that means a separate inner part called the core, and a separate outer part called a shell, 2) at least 5" thickness, and 3) minimum distances from walls. Single skins like some rocket stoves or some masonry heaters in Europe and Asia work but aren't being accepted here.

Knowing the big picture of how a masonry heater works can help you in its construction - that is you must realize there is an inner part that gets very hot and thus expands up and out, and an outer part (the part you see) that's job is to accept heat from this inner part (the core) and radiate it out into the room.

Go to the Masonry Heater Association's site www.mha-net.org and start digging around. A person with good math skills who has a good idea of what he or she is doing should be able to build something that works pretty good to burn wood. If you were to follow the picture sequences closely using the same sized fire bricks why couldn't you copy what was built?

 

[byQ]

Wow. I missed this thread. Awesome!

I am considering finding a masonry workshop out East. So glad this topic is active here.

I don't know where you are situated but there is a masonry heater builder in Minnesota, Eric Moshier, who teaches classes on both Rocket Stove construction and Masonry Heater construction at a school in Northern Minnesota - it costs $360.
http://www.northhouse.org/courses/courses/course.cfm/cid/231 I would go if it was closer.

 

[DevilsBrew]

I have been looking at masonry workshops and the cost is at least $800. I am only interested in outdoor ovens. I could build my own for almost free depending on the deals I could get. This frustrates me and is disappointing.

 

[Kosmik]

I almost went to a MHA heater build near me, but life got busy. That would have only cost me a week of my time/expenses, then I think $150 for membership which is sometimes wanted for these builds.
That is probably the cheapest way for some 'hands on' is to 'help out'.
Or $75 for their plans.
(broken link removed to http://mha-net.org/html/bookstore-portfolio.htm)

Are you doing outdoor heating device or outdoor cooking device. A pizza oven is much, much simpler (no flue).
Masonry experience?
Upside is you don't have to worry about CO poisoning should you mess up and leak gases through the facing.
You would want something that is going to heat quick (thinner/lighter), IMO, as it would be a temporary source of heat?

 

[DevilsBrew]

Outdoor cooking only. I have built the cheapy DIY brick ovens that you see on youtube. I have also done a lot of research. I would love to learn more about masonry construction itself but not have to spend $1000 to do it. I need some skills! Ha!

 

[Kosmik]

I've been looking at jobs in the city in masonry/construction...
Seems like it might be the best way for me to get some experience and paycheck.
Plus I want to be able to build myself a structure to live in that won't burn down...

I guess first would be to consider black oven (fire in oven) or not.
A pizza oven like above would be easier than one where the heat was radiated through the brick to the oven.
The oven above will get hot, but not the thermonuclear fires of the masonry heater. I worked in a wood fired pizza kitchen one summer.

If it's almost free jump in learn as you go? Safety concerns a lessened outdoors in a firesafe area. You aren't building any hotter fire than an outdoor firepit at that point.
This guy's site was interesting. Selling his plans for something around $5.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/

I think this is free? Linked on the MHA site.
http://www.fornobravo.com/store/Pompeii-Oven-Instruction-eBook-V2.0-pdf.html

 

[Seasoned Oak]

DId you happen to get a reading of the flue pipe temp on the stove. Id be interested to know what that would be . I have a hot air coal stoker with the flue pipe coming out the bottom and on low fire its darn near room temp. Not losing much heat up the flue on that one.

 

[DevilsBrew]

I've been looking at jobs in the city in masonry/construction...
Seems like it might be the best way for me to get some experience and paycheck.
Plus I want to be able to build myself a structure to live in that won't burn down...

I guess first would be to consider black oven (fire in oven) or not.
A pizza oven like above would be easier than one where the heat was radiated through the brick to the oven.
The oven above will get hot, but not the thermonuclear fires of the masonry heater. I worked in a wood fired pizza kitchen one summer.

If it's almost free jump in learn as you go? Safety concerns a lessened outdoors in a firesafe area. You aren't building any hotter fire than an outdoor firepit at that point.
This guy's site was interesting. Selling his plans for something around $5.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/

I think this is free? Linked on the MHA site.
http://www.fornobravo.com/store/Pompeii-Oven-Instruction-eBook-V2.0-pdf.html

At least I finally found an outdoor brick oven workshop near me. After the last 24 hours, I am starting to wonder if I shouldn't go the construction route. Find basic DIY workshops or classes on basic structural design in order to become educated on general masonry techniques and materials.