I own a Majestic Vermont Castings gas fireplace model DVRT36RP we cant seem to keep the glass clean. I know others that say they never have to clean their glass but ours will get dirty just from the piolet light burning. It was professionaly installed. When we called them about it they said it was normal to get dirty for the first couple uses due to some of the decorative coals burning that droped on the flamebut now that is off warrenty and still doing it I am at a loss. Any ideas???
Majestic gass fireplace glass
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its possible that you have lots of impurites in the gas, and there condensating on the glass, thats the only explination i can think of with the pilot. As far as it getting dirty when its running, that can be caused by to many glowing embers or the air shutter set to rich.
I agree that a new stove burning LP can dirty the glass a little in the beginning. Usually only for a few weeks and the color will be gray or a whitish haze. That should be cleaned off so that it does not etch onto the glass. But, if after a few weeks you still get dirty glass, especially if black or sooty, that is not normal. If you have black soot on the glass at any time it is not normal. The air settings are wrong, or there is an air leak, or some impingement. You certainly should not have gone beyond the warranty period to get this solved. However, it may be you just need your yearly maintenance done and they settings can be checked and corrected.
We always figure in a second trip to adjust the air settings, etc. Sometimes we don't need to return. But it's rare to get the air adjusted correctly the first time around when we're there only for a few minutes. Of course, most installers will not have this policy, our technique is rare. But most of our customers are sensitive to the visual effect of the flame and we work mostly with propane. This almost requires us to take more time to set up the burner.
We always figure in a second trip to adjust the air settings, etc. Sometimes we don't need to return. But it's rare to get the air adjusted correctly the first time around when we're there only for a few minutes. Of course, most installers will not have this policy, our technique is rare. But most of our customers are sensitive to the visual effect of the flame and we work mostly with propane. This almost requires us to take more time to set up the burner.
Hi Sean,
Can you tell me exactly what you mean by "etching the glass"? Does this residue from impurities in the propane, rich air shutter adjustment, too many embers, flame impingenent, actually scratch or pit the glass?
I have a Heat & Glow FB Grand Propane Insert that I usually have to clean the glass on once a month. I use Rutland White Off and paper towels and the towels are usually gray from the film. Even after I clean and buff out the glass and reinstall it, it looks much better but in certain areas of the glass I seems like it is shadowed, (darker or shaded in certain areas, very, very slight discolorization), but the glass is smooth.
I have heard of etching, but I am not exactily what it looks like. Is it permanent?
Thanks,
John
Can you tell me exactly what you mean by "etching the glass"? Does this residue from impurities in the propane, rich air shutter adjustment, too many embers, flame impingenent, actually scratch or pit the glass?
I have a Heat & Glow FB Grand Propane Insert that I usually have to clean the glass on once a month. I use Rutland White Off and paper towels and the towels are usually gray from the film. Even after I clean and buff out the glass and reinstall it, it looks much better but in certain areas of the glass I seems like it is shadowed, (darker or shaded in certain areas, very, very slight discolorization), but the glass is smooth.
I have heard of etching, but I am not exactily what it looks like. Is it permanent?
Thanks,
John
We use propane. The installers did have to come back because I complained about the size of the flame and the residue on the glass. they cleaned it and told me the flame was as high as it would go and the residue should disapate but cleaning would be still be nessecery. The flame is nearly invisible more of just a glow. Yesterday I turned the piolet light off for the season and noticed a heavy anount of soot around the piolet light on the log. This piolet light seemes to be quite large is that normal? Should I wait till the fall to have someone come out and look at it or have it taken care of now? Can an air leak be a majior repair?
Well, actually its a misnomer. But we use the term to indicate the effect of the ash and heat on the interior glass surface. It is less common on gas stoves but it can happen. If you leave the film on too long and the glass gets really hot, even "sticky", the glass can get permanently clouded. A little of this is usually not a problem. But some folks want perfectly clean glass all the time. It's hard to explain that it isn't always achievable. "Clean" glass is relative. But with a gas stove it should be mostly clear, most of the time. Some residue can come from the fuel, especially propane. In some places this residue must be regularly removed. But black soot should not be building up on the glass. If you are constantly cleaning off black soot something is wrong. "Gray" is likely the residue from the gas, not soot.
Sean
Sean
Fire Bug said:
Sounds like the air mix is not right, maybe even the wrong size orifices. Also, soot building on the pilot indicates a problem. If you have a rear vent model it will take longer to get good balance for secondary combustion. Sound like your unit needs "tweaking" to get better results. Maybe a "snorkel" cap will help.
We do not prefer the adjustment settings on the Majestic line of stoves. It is difficult and time consuming. Most of the time we hope it will look good out of the box. When it doesn't we dread the process. Your technicians may feel similarly. It's a pain but they have to spend the time with it to do the "tweaks".
Sean
We do not prefer the adjustment settings on the Majestic line of stoves. It is difficult and time consuming. Most of the time we hope it will look good out of the box. When it doesn't we dread the process. Your technicians may feel similarly. It's a pain but they have to spend the time with it to do the "tweaks".
Sean
dirtyglass said:
seaken said:
Hi Sean,
Thanks for the info.. My DV Fireplace Insert,(Heat& Glow FB Grand), definitely gets more dirty quicker than my Jotul Firelight Stove glass.
You answered my question about the etching. Rather than scratching, it is a form of shadeing of the glass, from the way I understand your reply.
I can usually tell when the insert need cleaning because when the fire in going, the glass, which is rather large, gets a whitetish, hazy look to it. After I remove it and clean it with Rutland White Off, its like WOW, it looks like a different unit.
Theslight shading I refered to is noticable when the unit is not operating and you have to really look for it when you walk by. You almost have to look at it from just the right angle of view.
Can this "etching ever be removed by some type of cleaner?
Thanks again for your helpful info.
John
dirtyglass said:
Sounds like the pilot orifice might be a NG orifice which would cause some sooting. If the stuff you have to clean off the glass BLACK or WHITE? Black is generally soot from incomplete combustion and white is either dust burning or impurities in the LP or other junk in the FP making residue like new embers or new logs, etc...
Really you should only have to clean the glass once a season unless it is used heavily every day, then you might have to clean it 2 or 3 times during the season.
Fire Bug: the etching cannot be removed, as it is damage to the glass surface itself. If the white cloudy stuff or soot is left on the glass too long and bakes in, it basically etches itself into the glass and it will never come off. You should not have to clean your glass once a month, unless you run it for 8 hours every day. Check the gasket and make sure no room air is being sucked into the fireplace around the glass. Also did you have your chimney cleaned before they installed the insert? It could be sucking particles in the air in the chimney down for combustion, then burning it, making the white residue. To solve that you would have to have the fresh air side lined all the way to the cap.
Thanks JTP & Sean for all your info. I think I cleaned my glass Twice this season. I will probably do it one more time at the end of the season. It still looks pretty clear.
I have had people tell me that they have never cleaned their glass since they got their propane stoves. I looked at one persons Woodstock's Franklin propane gas stove before I bought my Jotul Firelight Stove, and he said he has never cleaned his glass yet and he has the stove a year.
I noticed around the top corners of the gasket of my glass frame on my Heat & Glow FB Grand Insert, it appears their is some darkening of the tape that is over the gasket at the corners,(almost like a slight soot). Could this be a air leak? The gasket seems to be in good shape with no breaks or scars in it. Wood I have to pull the gasket out from the glass frame to make it seal better against the ceramic fire box?
Sorry about all these questions, but these gas units seem to be more of a problem than the wood burner I had.
I have been told that propane units have to have the glass cleaned more often than the NG units because of the impurities and dirtiness of propane fuel.
Jtp, I guess your going to get brunt of my questions since you deal mostly with Hearth & Home Products.
Thanks,
John
I have had people tell me that they have never cleaned their glass since they got their propane stoves. I looked at one persons Woodstock's Franklin propane gas stove before I bought my Jotul Firelight Stove, and he said he has never cleaned his glass yet and he has the stove a year.
I noticed around the top corners of the gasket of my glass frame on my Heat & Glow FB Grand Insert, it appears their is some darkening of the tape that is over the gasket at the corners,(almost like a slight soot). Could this be a air leak? The gasket seems to be in good shape with no breaks or scars in it. Wood I have to pull the gasket out from the glass frame to make it seal better against the ceramic fire box?
Sorry about all these questions, but these gas units seem to be more of a problem than the wood burner I had.
I have been told that propane units have to have the glass cleaned more often than the NG units because of the impurities and dirtiness of propane fuel.
Jtp, I guess your going to get brunt of my questions since you deal mostly with Hearth & Home Products.
Thanks,
John
The tape in the corners always changes from the heat. I doubt there are any air leaks. You can tell if there are major leaks because there will be heat trails on the metal and also the glass usually gets patterns on it suggesting where air is going in or exhaust is leaking out.
Yes, LP fireplaces sometimes need the glass cleaned more often than NG unit.
Yes, LP fireplaces sometimes need the glass cleaned more often than NG unit.
Hi Jtp,
Thanks again for the feedback. Wouldn't an air leak cause the propane fuel to be leaned out rather than enrichened? Or is it that an air leak causes the glass to become cooler and the hot gas inside the firebox create soot when it comes in contact with the cooler glass.
I was informed on this forum somewhere or I read some where on this webite that "flame impingement on the ceramic logs causes sooting because the hot flame contacts the log and the flame cools on contact causing sooting. Is this work the same way with the glass?
I would think that extra air entering the fire box would create a leaner burn mixture, like closing the air shutter allows for a richer mixture and opening it causes more air to fuel ration causing for a leaner combutstuble mixture.
I will get the theory of behind the operation of these gas units down yet. I seems similar in theory similar to the carburators on cars or a acetheline thorch.
Thanks,
John
Thanks again for the feedback. Wouldn't an air leak cause the propane fuel to be leaned out rather than enrichened? Or is it that an air leak causes the glass to become cooler and the hot gas inside the firebox create soot when it comes in contact with the cooler glass.
I was informed on this forum somewhere or I read some where on this webite that "flame impingement on the ceramic logs causes sooting because the hot flame contacts the log and the flame cools on contact causing sooting. Is this work the same way with the glass?
I would think that extra air entering the fire box would create a leaner burn mixture, like closing the air shutter allows for a richer mixture and opening it causes more air to fuel ration causing for a leaner combutstuble mixture.
I will get the theory of behind the operation of these gas units down yet. I seems similar in theory similar to the carburators on cars or a acetheline thorch.
Thanks,
John
A very small air leak wont do anything noticeable to the flames. Even if you take the glass off and burn it the flames still look very similar to with the glass on, except they probably will blow all over the place.
You are thinking and worrying about this waaaay too much. Just enjoy your fireplace.
You are thinking and worrying about this waaaay too much. Just enjoy your fireplace.
Jtpjtp10181 said:
My wife just read your response and she is inclined to believe you are correct but what does she know!
I beleve that knowledge comes from from asking questions directed to people have experience. How did you learn your trade?
OH,OH
Here comes the wife!! Gotta Go!!John
Well.... I needed a job really bad and I started doing "general labor" through a temp agency. Eventualy landed at a dealer as an installer assistant. They saw how good I was at learning stuff and fixing things so I became a service guy. Had one week of... minimal on the job training. Learned everything else by myself or by asking tech support or higher-ups in the company. Two and a half years after I started and I know quite a bit. Now I am the field supervisor...
jtp10181 said:
As you stated asking questions through tech support or higher ups helped with the advancement of your career that you have today. My point exaxtly. Hence, my many,many, many questions.
I have seen even the brightest get stumped every now and than. Ever hear of Bob Harper, Heat & Glows ace Eastern Coast Master Technician?
And yes I worry about the performance and the quality of my investments and also the safety of my family. This could be in the form of fireplaces, stoves, houses , automobiles, etc.
Quality is achieved through dedication and an individuals desire to meet or exceed this dedication.
If more individuals strived to meet this goal we would have better products and better trained individuals to service these products.
John
Bob Harper is no longer with HHT as far as I know. While he was, I met him and shook his hand during a training session.
Fire Bug said:
Your conversation was about leaks at the glass gasket. In this case there would not be an air mix problem. Air mixes with the fuel at the venturi/manifold, as you suggested this is the way the carburator or torch works. The air is drawn in by the velocity of the gas in the venturi. Which is why we both mentioned to check the orifices for the original poster on this thread. Soot on the glass can be caused by several different things. A gasket leak could cause some soot near the air leak. But if the soot is all over the glass it is more likely from incomplete combustion caused by a bad air mix. You are correct about the soot collecting on the cooler glass. But the air coming in that leak does not directly affect the mix at the manifold. It can affect the secondary combustion zone if the leak is big enough. leading to impingement or sooty tips, etc.
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