M55 Vacuum check leads to high limit temp senor trip

[BradH70]

I was going to try a couple bags of pellets that were given to me at Cheshire Pellet company but decided to do a burn chamber vacuum check and good cleaning prior to putting the new pellets in the hopper. As per the Technical Manual for my stove, I set up the low vacuum gauge and put the stove in manual mode, heat level 5. After about 20 minutes and just after I snapped this picture, the stove stopped feeding pellets. I thought maybe I had starved the auger so I looked in the hopper and instead of low pellets I noticed Light #4 blinking. According to the manual this is due to 200* high limit temp switch tripping. I put the stove back in Hi/Low mode and let it cool down. Once it got to a happy temperature, it went back to it's normal operating mode.

Maybe this is my avenue to a new convection blower under warranty.

Oh and by the way, this temp was produced from Okanagans. The end of the temp probe was just outside of one of the center exhaust ports. It was not making contact with any metal.

 

[flynfrfun]

Brad,
1st...hopefully you can convince them to exchange the blower. It all depends on your dealer. They might try to give you the adjustable auger cover instead. But, if you read my other post, I was able to confirm the stove is inputting about 60,000BTU on heat level 5. So it's putting out slightly more than advertised, but I bet it might overheat at 55,000BTU input also. So, in my mind the adjustable auger cover plate is just going to restrict the stove to less than the advertised BTU input it's advertised at (IMHO). Kind of like buying a 75,000BTU stove, but being told by the mfr that you have to put on the adjustable auger cover to neck it down to 60,000BTU so it doesn't overheat...doesn't make sense if you need 75,000BTU.

2nd...I notice your mag reading is only .15in after 20mins? I thought you set it up higher than that? What I'm getting at is it always starts higher and then drops as the stove heats up which takes a good 1hr before it tops out. So, wouldn't yours end up lower than .15 after a full hr?

The reason I bring this up is because during my 2hr full blast (heat level 5) run the other day, I put my mag on and noticed it was way down. I could barely get it to .15in even with the damper opened all the way. Don't know what to make of this. Maybe my exhaust blower is growing weak? I have burned a little over a ton and need to do a full cleaning, so that could account for it too.

 

[BradH70]

flynfrfun, I'm not sure if my stove already has the auger cover plate. I will have to check next time a do a more thorough cleaning. I did see your posts on the BUT test and was not surprised by the results that you had. These stove can put out a lot of heat in a short amount of time. I don't think that I am going to bother with trying to go through the dealer to get replacement blower. I have the stove in Hi/Low mode at heat level #4 and have not had any high limit trips. I will probably stick with the blower I have and then purchase an updated blower in the future just to have on hand or possibly swap out, then I will still have the old one on the shelf in case of an emergency.

The mag reading came in that low that quickly because the stove had just finished satisfying the t-stat a few minutes prior to me checking the vacuum, so it had been running at heat level #4 for probably 40 minutes or so already and was still quite warm. When I initially set up the vacuum gauge, it was at about 0.17-0.18 and then seemed to settle out at 0.15 occasionally going back up to 0.16. I did not touch the damper slide lever and currently it is a little more then half way closed.

Wow, I don't think I would want to run my stove for 2 hours at heat level 5, especially with the Okanagans. I don't go any higher then heat level 4 for normal operation, otherwise the living room gets way to hot before the heat starts moving into other areas of the house.

When you checked your vacuum level the other day, what was the weather like? If it was warm out, you would have had a hard time getting a low vacuum because your natural draft would be reduced. I would think that it would be best to check it when it is cold outside and lower humidity. How long is your exhaust vent? That also has an impact on how much vacuum can be achieved in the burn chamber. I am tied into a 6" ridged SS liner in my chimney and have about 24' of flue running straight up.

I looked at my fan a few weeks ago when I had the stove pulled out and it looked pretty good, I used a vacuum cleaner to suck as much ash out as I could but there was not much to be had.

 

[flynfrfun]

I don't know a lot about exhaust piping, but maybe that 24' vertical is causing a natural draft that helps the combustion blower. Mine goes straight out horizontal 18", then a cleanout T on the outside of the house, vertical 3' to a 90 with a termination after the 90. The 3' of vertical is probably not enough to create much of a natural draft. So, my combustion blower doesn't get any help.

I think this upcoming weekend, I'll do a 1 ton thorough cleaning to include all the pipe and combustion blower.

Just for comparison would you mind taking a mag reading while your stove is on 5, then drop it to 3 and see what the difference is? Mine seems to be about the same for both. Wondering if this is normal, or if it should be less at 3?

 

[BradH70]

Sounds like you have the exhaust vented exactly as the manual suggests. Maybe adding for vertical pipe would allow more draft.

I'll try to do the test this week or weekend. I have heard that Santa is coming to town so I am trying to get ready for that as well.

 

[flynfrfun]

Take your time, it's a busy time of the year.

 

[jtakeman]

I'm susrprised they don't have a number for the low fire setting as well. My Omega has a high setting of .14 to .16 and a low fire of .11 to .13 in the tech manual.

 

[jbfrost912]

I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this post. This week the temps. are supposed to drop for a night and I am going to try and re-set my mag. setting.
I am still having problems with my mag reading being too high, so I am attempting to get it close. I am burning Spruce Pointe pellets and cannot get them as hot as a lot of other people get them.
My stove will maintain the same mag. reading no matter what heat setting I have the stove on.

Other problems that I am having: My dealer that I bought the stove from went out of business and have been trying for weeks to get in touch with Enviro with no luck.

Brad and Jay, thanks for all of your previous help.

Jon

 

[flynfrfun]

Frosty...did you try closing the damper to drop the mag readings?

 

[jtakeman]

I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this post. This week the temps. are supposed to drop for a night and I am going to try and re-set my mag. setting.
I am still having problems with my mag reading being too high, so I am attempting to get it close. I am burning Spruce Pointe pellets and cannot get them as hot as a lot of other people get them.
My stove will maintain the same mag. reading no matter what heat setting I have the stove on.

Other problems that I am having: My dealer that I bought the stove from went out of business and have been trying for weeks to get in touch with Enviro with no luck.

Brad and Jay, thanks for all of your previous help.

Jon

Jon,

Try closing the damper as flyin said to try. A high draft will send most of the heat out the vent pipe.

If that doesn't help, Keep posting will figure out whats up!

 

[jbfrost912]

At last try to set the mag. setting, I had the slide damper fully closed and the mag. reading was at .20. If I remember correctly that was about as low as I could get the mag. setting unless I forced the air intake flap open.

 

[flynfrfun]

What does your flame look like? I'm wondering if your mag gauge is accurate. When you shut the damper, does the flame get lazy?

 

[jbfrost912]

Yes, the flame gets lazy, a darker color orange, and produces more ash.

I tried an analog and a digital magnehelic meter. They both were the same.
The only thing that I am going to try differently is to put the inlet tube for the mag. meter up at the top of the stove. My manual says to take the reading from the hole on the side of the ash pan. Other people have said to take it from the side up high. I would think the measurement would be the same by the measurement being taken from the same burn chamber.

Thanks.

Wednesday night is supposed to get colder so I am going to try to re-set the mag. setting then.

 

[flynfrfun]

Strange. It sounds like a mag problem to me even though you tried two. Of course "lazy flame" can be a little subjective. When you closed the damper and the flames got lazy, were there black tips to the flames? Just trying to make sure we are both talking the same lazy. Also, you have to make sure the mag gauge is not in front of the blower when you are taking your readings? It needs to be out of a high or low pressure area to function correctly.

I use a mag, but I also fine tune each pellet by watching the flame. This is not by the book, so take this with a grain of salt: Sometimes I will set my damper while on heat level 3 since that is as high as I typically run my stove. I try to get the highest flame possible which requires closing the damper. Then I open the damper until the flame starts getting slightly smaller, but has no black tips. That seems to work for me. On the M55, the flame will look pretty lazy compared to other stoves that have more of a blowtorch look.

Check youtube for Enviro's flame characteristic video. They show what the flame should look like when adjusted properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-FrAKB2vWk

 

[smwilliamson]

I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this post. This week the temps. are supposed to drop for a night and I am going to try and re-set my mag. setting.
I am still having problems with my mag reading being too high, so I am attempting to get it close. I am burning Spruce Pointe pellets and cannot get them as hot as a lot of other people get them.
My stove will maintain the same mag. reading no matter what heat setting I have the stove on.

Other problems that I am having: My dealer that I bought the stove from went out of business and have been trying for weeks to get in touch with Enviro with no luck.

Brad and Jay, thanks for all of your previous help.

Jon

Call Russo Products in Randolph, MA. They are the distributor for Enviro in NE. ALL CALLS FROM NE ENVIRO GET ROUTED THERE. 781-963-1182

 

[libirm]

Strange. It sounds like a mag problem to me even though you tried two. Of course "lazy flame" can be a little subjective. When you closed the damper and the flames got lazy, were there black tips to the flames? Just trying to make sure we are both talking the same lazy. Also, you have to make sure the mag gauge is not in front of the blower when you are taking your readings? It needs to be out of a high or low pressure area to function correctly.

I use a mag, but I also fine tune each pellet by watching the flame. This is not by the book, so take this with a grain of salt: Sometimes I will set my damper while on heat level 3 since that is as high as I typically run my stove. I try to get the highest flame possible which requires closing the damper. Then I open the damper until the flame starts getting slightly smaller, but has no black tips. That seems to work for me. On the M55, the flame will look pretty lazy compared to other stoves that have more of a blowtorch look.

Check youtube for Enviro's flame characteristic video. They show what the flame should look like when adjusted properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-FrAKB2vWk

Fly-
The thing i noticed on the video is that they have the fuel quality bottom on multi- which I understand drop more pellets than when it is in premium quality. So I don't think we get a look at a flame on premium pellet setting. On premium setting, I think flame will be smaller, right?
I am interested in the thread esp. because my installer tells me all you need is a look at the flame and not a gauge because different pellets burn differently.
I want to buy or rent a gauge and do it myself just to try and set it up perfectly.
Almost makes sense because we used set points in GM cars by "ear" and be all right.
I do like the preciseness of instruments though, its hard to argue numbers.
Frosty- hope it goes well, keep us informed,please.
Thanks

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The reason for the mag is to set the coarse adjustment so the fine trims can cover the minor fuel/air setup. That way you can set and lock the damper and never have to play with it. Setting the damper by flame is fine if you know what you are looking at and take your time, a lot of folks don't know what they are looking at and rarely take the time needed to do it correctly.

 

[jtakeman]

Yes, the flame gets lazy, a darker color orange, and produces more ash.

I tried an analog and a digital magnehelic meter. They both were the same.
The only thing that I am going to try differently is to put the inlet tube for the mag. meter up at the top of the stove. My manual says to take the reading from the hole on the side of the ash pan. Other people have said to take it from the side up high. I would think the measurement would be the same by the measurement being taken from the same burn chamber.

Thanks.

Wednesday night is supposed to get colder so I am going to try to re-set the mag. setting then.

Pretty odd your readings are so high even on the low feed rates. High on my list is the combustion blower is stuck on high. If you have a clamp on volt meter you could check to see what volts are going to the blower on the lower feed rates. If its at the same level as the outlet? Its probably a control board issue. But you need to check the volts to confirm this.

 

[libirm]

The reason for the mag is to set the coarse adjustment so the fine trims can cover the minor fuel/air setup. That way you can set and lock the damper and never have to play with it. Setting the damper by flame is fine if you know what you are looking at and take your time, a lot of folks don't know what they are looking at and rarely take the time needed to do it correctly.

Thanks Smoke-

I want to respect this threads owner, so I might start a thread on what to look for and other variables in the future.
Some of this is a little different with a insert, for example can't get to the set screw for the damper, however it is loosen enough to move it with a pair of needle nose.

 

[flynfrfun]

The reason for the mag is to set the coarse adjustment so the fine trims can cover the minor fuel/air setup. That way you can set and lock the damper and never have to play with it. Setting the damper by flame is fine if you know what you are looking at and take your time, a lot of folks don't know what they are looking at and rarely take the time needed to do it correctly.

Thanks Smoke-

I want to respect this threads owner, so I might start a thread on what to look for and other variables in the future.
Some of this is a little different with a insert, for example can't get to the set screw for the damper, however it is loosen enough to move it with a pair of needle nose.

Is there a screw for the damper on the insert? I've never seen it if there is.

 

[libirm]

The reason for the mag is to set the coarse adjustment so the fine trims can cover the minor fuel/air setup. That way you can set and lock the damper and never have to play with it. Setting the damper by flame is fine if you know what you are looking at and take your time, a lot of folks don't know what they are looking at and rarely take the time needed to do it correctly.

Thanks Smoke-

I want to respect this threads owner, so I might start a thread on what to look for and other variables in the future.
Some of this is a little different with a insert, for example can't get to the set screw for the damper, however it is loosen enough to move it with a pair of needle nose.

Is there a screw for the damper on the insert? I've never seen it if there is.

You know I am not sure about that- I thought I saw my installer loosen it up but I can't say that I ever saw one on mine, I was on the other side of the stove with install.
But that is a good question?
I have a look next time I pull it out!