Looking for a Outdoor Boiler

[biggenius29]

I am looking at purchasing a outdoor boiler, and there are so many different companies out there.

I talk to Central Boiler and they say theres is the best because of the firebox design, and it is the only boiler with the blown on insulation.

I talk to another company and they say that the square firebox's are no good that you need to go with a round one. And that Vat insulation is better, because the blown on insulation will get moisture under it and rot the water tank out.

The next company says a stainless firebox is the way to go.

Then the next company says that stainless is not the way to go because it does not transfer heat as well as mild steel, and it will expand and contract more than mild steel and will get fatigue.

So, who do I believe? I can see everyones point on why theres is better than the next guy's, but I just want to know what will work the best.

Then I also have the option of saving about $3000+ and getting a "knock-off" brand. These are the companies that say their boiler is built just like so and so's but way cheaper. On one hand I want to get one from one of the big companies, but on the other hand I could save a bunch of money and go with a cheap one. But I do know if I run into problems the big guys will stand by there product where the fly by night guys probly will not even be around next year. But, I am also good at welding and reparing things, and I would imagine that about the only thing that could go wrong with a boiler is a weld failing or something else that I can fix. And all the pumps and electrical componants could be fixed easly.

What do you guys recomend?

I am sure it is asked all the time, but what brand do you recomend too?

Sorry I am new here....

Thanks

Ross

 

[magnumhntr]

Ross,

I was at one time sold on the CB because of the reasons the salepeople told me. Then when I started researching the gasification boilers I called CB and talked to one of their own people to ask some questions about their upcomming E-Classic. Two different salesmen blew so much smoke up my a## that I ended up hanging up on the last one I spoke to. I come to the conclusion that if they'll BS you about one thing, they'd do it on all their products.

Long story short, I ended up buying a Woodmaster because after talking to the owner of Woodmaster, and my local dealer, I decided that was the way to go. Not just because of certain features, but also because they were up front and honest about everything they were asked. And my dealer is 5 miles from my house. Take it for what it's worth, but research the fine print before you buy from any of them. They all do the same thing ~ heat water to 180 degrees. Decide for yourself the one that has the features you want, not the best marketing ploy.

I live in Plainwell, and the local dealer is just south of town if you want to see one up close.

Chris

 

[webbie]

A weld failing can be fixed, but an entire tank developing pinholes could be tougher!

You also have to look at your heating load, wood supply and many other factors. In general, an OWB only makes sense if you cut your own wood, have plenty of it, and need a fairly large amount of heat. The fireboxes (mostly) are just too big for efficient heating for normally insulated homes.

Hopefully, you have checked out our intro articles:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/owb
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/central_heat

After the introduction, do your homework on heat load, firebox size, efficiency, tendency to smoke (do you have neighbors, etc.)....and come up with the proper size range.

The sad fact is that the OWB industry as a whole has misled the customers, regulators, dealers and just about everyone else - that is how they become big sellers, but skirting most regulations as to build quality, efficiency, chimney etc.

Not to say that some are not made better than others....they certainly are. Just that listening to the factory is, in most cases, not the ideal way to shop for them.

 

[cliff_jr]

I am a heating contractor and have installed both standard OWBs and indoor Tarms. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Here is what I have found.
The Tarm is a gasification unit, which means much higher efficiency. To achieve this, however, the wood needs to be seasoned and cut into small lengths (18" max.). Due to the size of the firebox, the burn usually lasts 8 hrs. max., which means it can get a little cold by morning. This can be helped by oversizing the boiler, but then you lose money initially and efficiency later. If you have good seasoned, cut and split wood, these work very well.
I also have installed Central Boilers. The efficiency is much less, depending on the type of wood you burn. Still, you can put a three foot long unsplit log in there and it will burn till morning. The PM is much higher than a gasification unit, but it is very close to the PM of a woodstove. (More on that in a minute.)
I get my wood for free and I don't like splitting, so I chose the OWB instead of the indoor Tarm. I have used it for two winters and am very happy. Stay away from stainless steel. While it works in ModCon boilers, it does not hold up so well in OWBs. I have a 2400 sq. ft. home and burn about 5-6 cords per winter. I have a mix of hard and soft woods and it does fine.
As far as PM (particulate matter) tests are concerned, make sure the method used is NOT grams per hour. The initial tests measured the PM per hour from a typical OWB and compared that to a typical woodstove. What it did not take into account is that the OWB is producing 5-10 times the Btus! The better test is grams per kilogram burned or grams per Btu input. These tests show that the PM is slightly higher for OWBs and the PCA emissions are slightly lower for OWBs. Also remember that much of the "smoke" you see coming out of the chimney of an OWB is water vapor, not PM.
If you are close to your neighbor make sure your chimney is higher than his roof ridge. This usually solves any problems with smoke bothering them. Always follow "Best Burn Practices" in both the installation and operating of these furnaces.
Any thoughts?

 

[pdboilermaker]

I purchased a woodmaster 4400 and love it, my best buddy has a central boiler and loves it. Both the central boiler people and the woodmaster people told us that they both have stainless steel models but it isnt worth the extra cash.

If you want a good guy that is a card and has done his reasearch, call Lynn Seeger at Woodmaster (the 800# on their website) he is an R&D;/ QA / Engineer guy. Great info

 

[PAcountryboy]

Webmaster, after having read your first link that you posted, it states that since '07 there are OWBs that are more efficient. Are they ALL more efficient (article made it sound like it was just voluntary)? Is there a list of the newer, more efficient units out there somewhere?

 

[jebatty]

I operated an OWB for 10 years and then switched to the Tarm this last winter. I own plenty of wood producing land, so my wood is free and unlimited. That being said, I would never go back to an OWB.

Although most of us "enjoy" cutting and splitting wood, I enjoy far more cutting and splitting 4-5 cords than 15 or more cords. Most of us also "enjoy" the smell of a wood fire, but when your neighbors stop by to see if the place is on fire because of a smoldering, smoke-belching OWB on startup or after an idle, there no longer is any enjoyment.

I also had to fuel the OWB 1-2 times per day with a lot of wood; the Tarm is rarely more than one load per day, and with my storage system, often once every 2-5 days depending on outside temperature. The operating time saving is very significant with the Tarm over the OWB.

There is no "one" right answer. Yet, based on my experience, I have no regrets over the change from an OWB to a gasification boiler.

 

[antos_ketcham]

Webmaster, after having read your first link that you posted, it states that since '07 there are OWBs that are more efficient. Are they ALL more efficient (article made it sound like it was just voluntary)? Is there a list of the newer, more efficient units out there somewhere?

Check out the EPA's list of cleaner OWBs at (broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/woodheaters/models.htm)

 

[antos_ketcham]

I am a heating contractor and have installed both standard OWBs and indoor Tarms. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Here is what I have found.
The Tarm is a gasification unit, which means much higher efficiency. To achieve this, however, the wood needs to be seasoned and cut into small lengths (18" max.). Due to the size of the firebox, the burn usually lasts 8 hrs. max., which means it can get a little cold by morning. This can be helped by oversizing the boiler, but then you lose money initially and efficiency later. If you have good seasoned, cut and split wood, these work very well.
I also have installed Central Boilers. The efficiency is much less, depending on the type of wood you burn. Still, you can put a three foot long unsplit log in there and it will burn till morning. The PM is much higher than a gasification unit, but it is very close to the PM of a woodstove. (More on that in a minute.)
I get my wood for free and I don't like splitting, so I chose the OWB instead of the indoor Tarm. I have used it for two winters and am very happy. Stay away from stainless steel. While it works in ModCon boilers, it does not hold up so well in OWBs. I have a 2400 sq. ft. home and burn about 5-6 cords per winter. I have a mix of hard and soft woods and it does fine.
As far as PM (particulate matter) tests are concerned, make sure the method used is NOT grams per hour. The initial tests measured the PM per hour from a typical OWB and compared that to a typical woodstove. What it did not take into account is that the OWB is producing 5-10 times the Btus! The better test is grams per kilogram burned or grams per Btu input. These tests show that the PM is slightly higher for OWBs and the PCA emissions are slightly lower for OWBs. Also remember that much of the "smoke" you see coming out of the chimney of an OWB is water vapor, not PM.
If you are close to your neighbor make sure your chimney is higher than his roof ridge. This usually solves any problems with smoke bothering them. Always follow "Best Burn Practices" in both the installation and operating of these furnaces.
Any thoughts?

I was curious what your season of operation was that equaled the 5-6 cords. What month do you start the stove and when do you shut it down? Thanks.

 

[PAcountryboy]

I operated an OWB for 10 years and then switched to the Tarm this last winter. I own plenty of wood producing land, so my wood is free and unlimited. That being said, I would never go back to an OWB.

Although most of us "enjoy" cutting and splitting wood, I enjoy far more cutting and splitting 4-5 cords than 15 or more cords. Most of us also "enjoy" the smell of a wood fire, but when your neighbors stop by to see if the place is on fire because of a smoldering, smoke-belching OWB on startup or after an idle, there no longer is any enjoyment.

I also had to fuel the OWB 1-2 times per day with a lot of wood; the Tarm is rarely more than one load per day, and with my storage system, often once every 2-5 days depending on outside temperature. The operating time saving is very significant with the Tarm over the OWB.

There is no "one" right answer. Yet, based on my experience, I have no regrets over the change from an OWB to a gasification boiler.

Wow. You really cut your woo use down to 1/3rd of what you were using with the OWB?!! That is very significant. Do you heat your whole house with wood only? What is your square footage?

 

[Duetech]

Hi Ross
I'm new to the forum as well and I hail from the state of Michigan also. The chimney on my old wood furnace started having some issues and the old furnace was showing wear so in '06 I started looking at OWB's. The smoldering of OWB's bothered me and I didn't even have one but fuel oil prices then were frightening. I stumbled on a wood gasifier on eBay and got curious. I did a google search on gasification and got wowed. The efficiency ratings of the gasifier compared to the OWB impressed me too. I bought an EKO 40 from Cozyheat.net and placed it in my garage (I feed my boiler sheltered from the major elements of winter). I heat my dhw and my home with my boiler and burn less than 1/2 the wood I used to. A friend of mine has an OWB, a bigger but better insulated home than I do and easily burns twice as much wood as I do during the heart of winter. I don't have a storage tank yet but will burn even less wood when I do. What I did not pay for fuel oil and propane the last two years has helped me keep my home. I even heat my dhw with my boiler during the summer. Look into gasifiers before you make a purchase. You'll save more than money. Cave2k

 

[jebatty]

Wow. You really cut your woo use down to 1/3rd of what you were using with the OWB?!! That is very significant. Do you heat your whole house with wood only? What is your square footage?

I estimate between 1/4 and 1/3 of former wood burning. I heat my shop, an old barn, 800 sq ft, 10 ft ceilings, very poorly insulated (you can see right through cracks to the outside). My boiler is located in the shop, as is the 1000 gal not water storage tank. The old OWB was located outside, about 100 ft from the shop. This is the only source of heat.

 

[biggenius29]

I was told about gassifiers before, what are they and how do they work? Also, are they about the same price as a OWB?

 

[taxidermist]

Call Dave at Cozy heat and he will take the time to honstaly tell you all you need to know about eko or tarm gassers I was sold on less wood means less work. Dave is located in Indian river MI
Dave also sells OWB but if you have the room he will point you twards a gasser.

Or you can call me and I will tell you why I bought a EKO

517-881-3954

Rob