Liner install and insulation questions

[farmwithjunk]

I have a Rhino Rigid 6.5x9.4" liner and tee coming at the end of the month and I'm trying to determine if/what needs done prior and get a plan together.

The instructions say the bottom tee should be supported but "using angle iron" is quite vague. I'm guessing this means supporting the bottom of the tee that it would be impossible to slide down if a clamp failed. I should be able to accomplish this with extending the tee if I have room or stacking brick. Is this what they are referring to? I only have 16' of pipe so it on the shorter end so perhaps not as much of a concern. I had my prior liner supported in this same manner.

"(Itis recommended that the bottom tee termination be secured and supported within the chimney; this isespecially necessary in the case of long lengths of liner exceeding 35 feet (10.6m). This can beaccomplished using angle iron.)"

How is it to be installed if insulating on the ground? I figure the 4 four foot long sections plus wrap will weight around 85 pounds. I'm thinking two people might just be able to man handle this straight down the chase. The other option would be to build and insulate 2-3 sections on the ground and clamp a foot from the end of the last pope then leave the tail of the insulation loose, insert into chase then rivet and insulate the next 1 or 2 sections. The pipe has expanded female ends with 4 rivets so I don't think it would be stressed lifting it vertical if insulated on the ground. I don't think the Duraliner would handle this stress with no real overlap on the ends and this being .0239" thick wall. I was told the snap wrap cannot be used on ovaled pipe but I sort of doubt that is true.

Realistically what is the outside diameter after 1/2" insulation and armor mesh? Online claims it adds 1.5" but they are counting the OD of corrugated in most cases. I see Bholler says it adds around 1.25" on hybrid liners which I'm guessing have a bit more OD than the <8 1/16" rigid. Its going to be a snug fit and I might need to trim some brick up so I want to get that done before it arrives. I'm thinking if I wrap it very tight, use extra foil tape, extra clamps and stainless wire spiraled around the entire length I can keep it tight and intact while installing.

Can I insulate the entire tee section if it uses a hose clamp around the outside body? I'm not sure if it has the small hat shaped take-off since it's ovaled, if that's the case the this a moot question. I would think if the clamp goes around the tee with insulation underneath this could potentially loosen after numerous heat cycles. I'm pretty sure I can based on the instructions below.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0735/1821/9544/files/Rock_Rigid_Stainless_Chimney_Liner_Install.pdf?v=1711651974

 

[retlaw]

I'll give some of this a go....

Yes, support pipe with something somewhere. Its heavy. I ran mine all the way to the cleanout. Doing so with another T at the cleanout allows you to seal the whole pipe. Leaving an open end suspended in the chimney is not the best.

I would caution you that two guys handling 16' of insulated rigid liner could be difficult especially as it gets down into the chimney and gets snagged on something...gravity and friction will work against you. You can probably pull it out and rethink it but its likely there will be damage to the insulation. A chimney thats several inches larger than the liner would really help here.

I built my 6"rigid liner on the ground in approx 12' sections and dropped down in sections by myself and it was difficult. I then snapped on the 2' insulated sleeves and pushed them down once the liner was in place. I got lucky. It worked. I was concerned that if they were preinstalled, they might come apart on the way down and I would have a mess. Also the weight would have been too much for me...not to mention trying to handle the heavy pipe with the slippery and somewhat delicate insulation sections installed. With enough room to spare AND two guys I think you could preinstall the insulation and drop it all but doing it in shorter sections seems prudent.
My insulation had a smooth aluminum outer. Mesh and a wire wrap seem destined to snag at some point if its a tight fit.

The 4 rivets on the pipe will not break from lifting.

Preformed insulation for tees is available. I wouldnt fasten the snout around the insulation.

All my experience is with heavy wall rigid 304 SS HeatFab. I dont anything about other types/brands so YMMV.

Good luck!

 

[farmwithjunk]

I'll give some of this a go....

Yes, support pipe with something somewhere. Its heavy. I ran mine all the way to the cleanout. Doing so with another T at the cleanout allows you to seal the whole pipe. Leaving an open end suspended in the chimney is not the best.

I would caution you that two guys handling 16' of insulated rigid liner could be difficult especially as it gets down into the chimney and gets snagged on something...gravity and friction will work against you. You can probably pull it out and rethink it but its likely there will be damage to the insulation. A chimney thats several inches larger than the liner would really help here.

I built my 6"rigid liner on the ground in approx 12' sections and dropped down in sections by myself and it was difficult. I then snapped on the 2' insulated sleeves and pushed them down once the liner was in place. I got lucky. It worked. I was concerned that if they were preinstalled, they might come apart on the way down and I would have a mess. Also the weight would have been too much for me...not to mention trying to handle the heavy pipe with the slippery and somewhat delicate insulation sections installed. With enough room to spare AND two guys I think you could preinstall the insulation and drop it all but doing it in shorter sections seems prudent.
My insulation had a smooth aluminum outer. Mesh and a wire wrap seem destined to snag at some point if its a tight fit.

The 4 rivets on the pipe will not break from lifting.

Preformed insulation for tees is available. I wouldnt fasten the snout around the insulation.

All my experience is with heavy wall rigid 304 SS HeatFab. I dont anything about other types/brands so YMMV.

Good luck!

Thanks. The snap on insulation would make it easy to built a section at a time using the clamp to hold it in place. I was told that wouldn't work for ovaled though. Thats how I dropped in my old Duraliner rigid by myself. We pulled out 12' easily enough. I should have a full inch of clearance between the narrow end of the chase and the insulation so I'm hoping its straight enough. It should be if I dropped 8 5/8 (closer to 8 3/4") down with just the last two feet being tight.

I think we could handle the 16' by itself but I'm worried the insulation will want to slide up on the pipe. I'm not sure how durable it is but I do have a clamp making kit so I can clamp it every few feet.

Duraliner rigid is installed in the same manner but I didn't see any mention about supporting the tee. Their pipe is at least as heavy but has much weaker rivet attachments.

I need 0/0 clearance so the Heat Fab wrap wouldn't work in my case.

 

[retlaw]

Thanks. The snap on insulation would make it easy to built a section at a time using the clamp to hold it in place. I was told that wouldn't work for ovaled though. Thats how I dropped in my old Duraliner rigid by myself. We pulled out 12' easily enough. I should have a full inch of clearance between the narrow end of the chase and the insulation so I'm hoping its straight enough. It should be if I dropped 8 5/8 (closer to 8 3/4") down with just the last two feet being tight.

I think we could handle the 16' by itself but I'm worried the insulation will want to slide up on the pipe. I'm not sure how durable it is but I do have a clamp making kit so I can clamp it every few feet.

Duraliner rigid is installed in the same manner but I didn't see any mention about supporting the tee. Their pipe is at least as heavy but has much weaker rivet attachments.

I need 0/0 clearance so the Heat Fab wrap wouldn't work in my case.

I noticed you mentioned "chase". I can see a chase being easier than a tile lined brick chimney with all sorts of snag possibilities.
If you hold the pipe with a hook and rope attached to the bottom you will take a lot of pressure off of the insulation. Run the rope inside the pipe.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I noticed you mentioned "chase". I can see a chase being easier than a tile lined brick chimney with all sorts of snag possibilities.
If you hold the pipe with a hook and rope attached to the bottom you will take a lot of pressure off of the insulation. Run the rope inside the pipe.

A rope on the inside would make sense if we could suspend the whole assembly and drop it in but we don't have that luxury. I was thinking about a hook on the outside of the pipe and guide it in that way. We could assembly two 8' sections together with the rope on the outside. Unless I understand things incorrectly I don't see how a rope on the inside would allow assembly or lowering it from the roof.

Yes, this is in a pretty straight chase but its only 9" and the pipe is 6.5 without insulation.

 

[retlaw]

A rope on the inside would make sense if we could suspend the whole assembly and drop it in but we don't have that luxury. I was thinking about a hook on the outside of the pipe and guide it in that way. We could assembly two 8' sections together with the rope on the outside. Unless I understand things incorrectly I don't see how a rope on the inside would allow assembly or lowering it from the roof.

Yes, this is in a pretty straight chase but its only 9" and the pipe is 6.5 without insulation.

Yes, you are right! Remembering back to when I did mine I think the rope WAS on the outside. Probably because I realized it wouldnt work on the inside since I was doing mine in sections.