Larger Stove...Smaller Hearth?

[Rusnakes]

Hi everyone. We are on the hunt for a large stove (around 3 cubic feet) that has a relatively small hearth. Longer burn times would be great, too. Jotul has the F 50 TL Rangeley that has a minimum hearth of 33" E/W and 43 3/4" N/S (okay burn times @ 8+ hours) and the F 55 Carrabassett (same hearth size, 10+ hours burn time). Our issue is not E/W dimensions...it's the N/S that has us pinned. We are cursed with a lovely home that has 40 million windows and door frames...all strategically placed.

We were originally going to go with the BK Princess, but it just won't fit N/S in any of the spaces we could use in the house. So, then we then considered the Jotul 500 or 600, but the same N/S hearth issues there. Also the same with PE's Summit, Quadrafire Isle Royale...the list goes on and on. We have been searching for a stove that is compact in size N/S with small rear clearances.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[begreen]

If a large stove is a priority then you are going to need to bite the bullet and plan on a larger hearth. Your best bet will probably be with a stove that has close clearances. What is the actual issue with the larger hearth? There may be a workaround if we understand the issue. Can you post some photos of the ideal locations for a stove in the house?

 

[Rusnakes]

Sure enough!

The first pic is of the spot we are currently trying to work with. It's a corner with the back side lobbed off (the hypotenuse of that lobed off triangle is 25 1/2"). If square, it would be 41" to the door frame and 41" to the exposed beam (on the right). I think this is where the original stove/chimney was on this house (1832 Greek Revival/Federal style timber frame).

The second pic is of a spot that theoretically is better, but in practice is less ideal. It is in the center of the wall, between the exposed beam and the door opening on the right. The good thing is that there is tons of floor space here. The bad things are that it is running through the natural walkway across the house (from the French door to the rest of the home, which is situation 20" out from the proposed wall)--not the worst thing. Second issue is that we'd have to cover up one of the 2 cool air returns for the house (both are on the main floor; both are huge like this, about 22" x 19").

We aren't married to a behemoth stove...just trying to get the largest stove for the hearth space we're stuck with. We are married to this section of the house, b/c it is the only section left to be renovated. We have 400 or so feet upstairs from this that needs to have the roof replaced (original builders never put in collar ties...roof is starting to sag quite a bit). So, we are building this stove addition into that renovation. We had one other spot in the pass through area past the French door (our original choice), but the N/S issue was about the same there (3' maximum before getting into the pathway through that area).

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Off topic, but that looks like a left handed version of my guitar. Is that a Seagull spruce (S6 spruce?) for a southpaw?

OK, question about the table in the room. Will you be able to move the table any to create a bigger pathway around a stove? Looks pretty tight for a stove in either location.

 

[Rusnakes]

Off topic, but that looks like a left handed version of my guitar. Is that a Seagull spruce (S6 spruce?) for a southpaw?

OK, question about the table in the room. Will you be able to move the table any to create a bigger pathway around a stove? Looks pretty tight for a stove in either location.

LOL It is most definitely a southpaw; it's a Martin el cheapo (D-1, spent about $1000 on it back in the day). I would love a D-28.

The table is out of there, either way; same with the sideboard. The room is 11 1/2 x 12 1/2, boasting 4 doors, 1 double doorway, and 1 window. LOL Love this house, but it is overly flush with doors and windows.

HTH.

 

[jdp1152]

Is the picture in your avatar from the house? Would love to see a full size of that.

 

[Rusnakes]

Yep. It is. Here it is:

And another personal favorite:

The timbers were hewn off of what was here when the property was settled; a lot of oak, some walnut, and some ash (from what we can tell). The wood has obviously aged over time to this nice dark brown. If you cut into the oak parts, they look like a new piece of oak (at 180 years old). Crazy stuff.

 

[jdp1152]

Fantastic!

 

[Waulie]

What about the Progress Hybrid from Woodstock? 7" rear clearance with heat shield, but you only need i think 8" in front since it doesn't have a front-opening door. 12 hour burn are simple and you can get quite a bit longer.

 

[Rusnakes]

What about the Progress Hybrid from Woodstock? 7" rear clearance with heat shield, but you only need i think 8" in front since it doesn't have a front-opening door. 12 hour burn are simple and you can get quite a bit longer.

You know, this is a very good question. I am not certain exactly if it would work or not. I just read through their manual and it was clear as mud to me: (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/images/editorial_support/ProgressManual/installation%20final.pdf)

It looks like you can't get by with anything smaller than 54 x 54" for the hearth, but then it goes on to talk about what the addition of heat shields, etc. will do for clearances. It also talked a lot about clearances with single wall pipe; I saw nothing about double wall (maybe I missed it?).

We have looked at the Progress Hybrid many times and considered it for our parallel (but too short N/S) placement beyond the French doors. I might contact them and see what they say.

 

[Rusnakes]

Just emailed them, with a pic of the corner. We'll see what they say.

 

[begreen]

Is this room the only option? What is on the opposite wall side of the sideboard?

 

[Rusnakes]

Is this room the only option? What is on the opposite wall side of the sideboard?

Well, this room, a small room on the other side of the wall in the second picture (a hearth would take up the whole room, quite frankly...it's 8 1/2' x 7, with a 4' closet on one wall and a window on the far wall), or the pass-through area on the other side of the French doors (it has a small area 3' deep by 6' wide that was originally our first choice for a spot for the stove). The opposite wall in this room has a side entry on the right (with a 4' x 4' tile slab), a window in the middle of the wall, and a door to second stairway in the house to the left. Total PITA of a space, so we are searching hard to find something that will work for the space...cuz we loves us some wood heat.

 

[Waulie]

You know, this is a very good question. I am not certain exactly if it would work or not. I just read through their manual and it was clear as mud to me: (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/images/editorial_support/ProgressManual/installation%20final.pdf)

It looks like you can't get by with anything smaller than 54 x 54" for the hearth, but then it goes on to talk about what the addition of heat shields, etc. will do for clearances. It also talked a lot about clearances with single wall pipe; I saw nothing about double wall (maybe I missed it?).

We have looked at the Progress Hybrid many times and considered it for our parallel (but too short N/S) placement beyond the French doors. I might contact them and see what they say.

The minimum depth with rear shield, ash lip, and standard legs in 43". You have a hard time beating that with any stove that can be loaded from the front. You can use single wall pipe with a heat shield or double wall pipe to get down to that minimum. If you make a ventilated shield on the wall, you can be 12" to the wall shield from the non-loading side which I think might make it work in your location 1.

All that said, Woodstock will help you figure it out.

 

[begreen]

Process thinking here. The return duct can't just be closed off, it will need to be relocated. I am also wondering about relocating the doorway over a couple stud spaces so that the hearth doesn't fall in a traffic pathway.

 

[Rusnakes]

Process thinking here. The return duct can't just be closed off, it will need to be relocated. I am also wondering about relocating the doorway over a couple stud spaces so that the hearth doesn't fall in a traffic pathway.

I wondered about the need for relocation (versus just closure) of the duct work. Not a task I'd like to do (and seriously, I can't think of another place it could go off-hand). As for relocating the doorway...a good idea, but definitely more renovating than I'd like to do, if I can help it. The doorway is balanced in the center of the room, so I would guess it would change the room dynamics to a certain degree. If all else fails though, it will probably end up being a discussion between smaller stove vs. more reno.

Nothing's ever been simple with this renovation; I figured this would be just as challenging!

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Rusnakes]

The minimum depth with rear shield, ash lip, and standard legs in 43". You have a hard time beating that with any stove that can be loaded from the front. You can use single wall pipe with a heat shield or double wall pipe to get down to that minimum. If you make a ventilated shield on the wall, you can be 12" to the wall shield from the non-loading side which I think might make it work in your location 1.

All that said, Woodstock will help you figure it out.

I am anxious to hear back from them. The back lobbed-off corner has me concerned that it's going to mess with the placement of the stove in that space.

 

[begreen]

I wondered about the need for relocation (versus just closure) of the duct work. Not a task I'd like to do (and seriously, I can't think of another place it could go off-hand). As for relocating the doorway...a good idea, but definitely more renovating than I'd like to do, if I can help it. The doorway is balanced in the center of the room, so I would guess it would change the room dynamics to a certain degree. If all else fails though, it will probably end up being a discussion between smaller stove vs. more reno.

Nothing's ever been simple with this renovation; I figured this would be just as challenging!

Thanks for your thoughts!

There are shallower fireboxes in some smaller stoves, but that will mean more frequent loading. To me, the gain of 3-6" in hearth depth reduction are not worth it. I wouldn't worry a lot about changing the room dynamics with the door relocation. We have done significant changes to our old farm house after careful deliberation. If it is an improvement you forget the old plan very quickly.

As for the return relocation, I'm sure there are heating contractors in your location that can handle this.