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Just ordered this
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no flue tiles at all. It's just brick and mortar. It's 28.5 ft from the top plate to the existing damper in the fireplace. There does seem to be a bend near the bottom but haven't figured out how severe it is yet, as I haven't torn out the damper yet. Still contemplating the elbow as apposed to the tee but, I'll exchange it if I need to.
dont forget the insulation. You will need it especially if there are no clay liners in that chimney.
It comes with an insulation wrap. I could get it in 1/2 or 1/4 inch. My chimney opening is 8"x11" and the salesman suggested I get the 1/4" wrap to make certain it slides well. I asked him the differences in performance, and he said that their testing showed negligible difference. He said it was primarily just more condensed. My only thinking on this is that any insulation that is compressed is less efficient but I don't know by how much.
No, that sounds great. The insulation protects the framing behind the masonry chimney in the event of a chimney fire. I should have read the link.
Well I don't know how much framing there is as my house is 100 yr old plaster on brick but.......
I'm still wondering about adding a key/hand damper inline somewhere because of the chimney height and draft. I'm reading conflicting info on the necessity and "safety" of doing this. Also hearing that this is "old" thinking because new EPA stoves should be able to control strong draft through the use of their own air flow controls.
Thoughts anyone?
And as for the liner, I think it might be a bit of overkill with the thickness, but coupled with the smoother inner surface and overall price for the kit, I thought it sounded pretty damn good. And by the way, the man I spoke with, Glenn Kellogg, was super helpful and told me if I had any questions to call him and he would talk me through the whole thing.
I'm still wondering about adding a key/hand damper inline somewhere because of the chimney height and draft. I'm reading conflicting info on the necessity and "safety" of doing this. Also hearing that this is "old" thinking because new EPA stoves should be able to control strong draft through the use of their own air flow controls.
Thoughts anyone?
And as for the liner, I think it might be a bit of overkill with the thickness, but coupled with the smoother inner surface and overall price for the kit, I thought it sounded pretty damn good. And by the way, the man I spoke with, Glenn Kellogg, was super helpful and told me if I had any questions to call him and he would talk me through the whole thing.
Have at least three people for the installation. That stuff is heavy, heavy and does not flex much. Getting it down the chimney from the top is a real challenge. I ended up having to push it up from inside the fireplace. Also make sure you point the right end up. The spiral inside is only laminated on one edge. You will see what I mean when you get the liner. The instructions should tell you which end goes up.
Yeah, 3 is the plan. And I was thinking about pushing it up from the bottom also. The thing that makes me consider going top down is I don't know if I want to try pushing the ENTIRE thing past the bend at the bottom of the chimney on it's way up. Will have to wait and see how tight the bend is.
you need 1/2" insulation to meet UL1777 for any liner I have ever seen. Not sure why they even make 1/4". In the instructions I have seen they show you double wrapping the 1/4" to get 1/2" total.
Really? I need to find out about this before they ship it to be certain. Any of you dealers or code gurus care to chime in?
I work at a dealer... and I know a lot about codes. Each liner system is different, I am saying I have only seen them approved for UL1777 with 1/2" insulation. Not sure what your liner is rated for, you would have to read the documentation on it for ask the manufacturer how to install it to meet UL1777.
Ah. Thanks. And no disrespect intended. I was just asking for more input. I'll get on their site and see what I can find out. The liner itself is .014 thick because of it's double layers. I don't know if that makes any difference.
Homesaver is about as big a name as you are going to find in the flex liner business and they say that 1/4" of foil covered insulation meets UL 1777 with their liners. And so does Excel.
Edit: Forgot to say that it is when you have a one inch clearance to combustibles.
Edit: Forgot to say that it is when you have a one inch clearance to combustibles.
Yes... well technically between interior and exterior chimneys, one of them you only need 1" clearance to combustibles from the masonry even with an uninsulated liner (I can never remember which one is 1" and which is 2"). The 1/2" insulation wrap gives you a 0" CTC from masonry with the liner products I have seen, and a 0" clearance around the liner to the masonry. The 1/2" insulation is the only way to go unless your chimney passes a full Level 2 inspection and meets all NFPA 211 guidelines (most masonry chimneys don't).
Well, if I do try and slide a 7-7.25" wrapped liner down my8"x11" chimney, how likely am I to get it stuck? The chimney looks pretty clean from the top. There are a few small clumps of mortar sticking out between bricks. I wonder if the wire mesh won't cause it to hang up. What's the purpose of this anyway? Also, how tough is the insulation? Is it likely to rip during installation?
Chip off any mortar "bulges" that you can see in the clay tiles, if you have them. That install is gonna be tight. Mine was 8x13 and I put in an uninsulated 6" liner. This was the first time myself and my helper had done this and it took about six hours. Then we lit a small break in fire and drank some beer. That looks like an awesome liner if you can get it in. Not judging, but for comparison, I paid $400 for a 6x30 liner kit with no insulation on e-bay. Reputable manufacturer. If that pre insulated liner is easier to slide than wrapping yourself, it is money well spent.
I remember how hard it was to straighten out .006 flex liner, I can't imagine what it is going to take for .014!
BB is right it will take every bit of 3 guys just to hold the ends while trying to straighten that bad boy out.
BB is right it will take every bit of 3 guys just to hold the ends while trying to straighten that bad boy out.
Just to add, I was able to fit 1/2" insulation on mine (8x13), it was a very tight fit, I did mine top down.
A pull cone made my job alot easier.
![[Hearth.com] Just ordered this](/talk/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chimneylinerinc.com%2Fimages%2Fsmallpullrd.jpg&hash=ba38cdeef2f8f5413a035a911de4bc13 "[Hearth.com] Just ordered this")
A pull cone made my job alot easier.
BrotherBart said:
First time I have heard this, I went back and reviewed Rockford's install documents and as well Chimney liner depot and see no mention of a "This Side Up" reference. I know that for rigid liners they have a directional install but I have never heard of a flex liner being done that way.
The flex we use does not have a special "flow" direction either.
To answer the OPs questions
We don't even bother trying to fit an insulated 6" liner down an 8x12 clay. We just use oval rigid double wall insulated liner, much easier.
The mesh is to give some protection to the insulation, it also keeps the insulation right against the liner over time, when the glue and tape have lost their usefulness.
Yes it will tear during installation if it gets snagged up on the flue a lot. Its just foil faced rock wool, not very durable.
To answer the OPs questions
We don't even bother trying to fit an insulated 6" liner down an 8x12 clay. We just use oval rigid double wall insulated liner, much easier.
The mesh is to give some protection to the insulation, it also keeps the insulation right against the liner over time, when the glue and tape have lost their usefulness.
Yes it will tear during installation if it gets snagged up on the flue a lot. Its just foil faced rock wool, not very durable.
The inner layer in a smooth wall liner is a continuous strip of 304L stainless. Only one side of the strip is bonded to the outer layer. To get full advantage of the increased draft you install the liner where the bonded part of the strip is on the down side. You will see what I mean when you get the liner. If you don't crud going up the chimney gets in the crevice on the unbonded side of the strip. And in a chimney fire the heat and fire would get under the strip causing it to buckle.
Ahh ok, your not talking about flex liners. I was about to go ballistic trying to figure out if my flex liner is upside down.
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