Jotul Firelight clearances

[Ashful]

Firelight 12, that is...

This is likely a question for the Jotul factory, but I figured I'd run it by you smart folks here, first.

The Jotul Firelight 12 manual is woefully short on required clearances info: (broken link removed to http://www.jotul.com/FileArchive/Files/USA/Old%20products/Old%20Stoves%20and%20inserts%20manuals/Jotul_12_Firelight_0910.PDF)

The Firelight 12 is visually identical to, and has the same dimensions as, the Firelight 600. However, the few clearances listed in the 12 manual are different than the corresponding clearances listed in the 600 manual, so it would seem this is not a useful reference.

The 12 manual includes zero information on clearace requirements when installed in an alcove. The 600 does, and despite that stoves tighter side and rear cleances, I still fail on top clearance to my lintel. If I put a heat shield on the lintel, then I make the 600 clearances fine, but again, no reference to top clearances in the 12 manual.

Advice?

I'm including some crude drawings below.



I'm tempted to just copy my other Firelight 12 installation, knowing this was done by a dealer 20 years ago, but I have two problems with that. First, this new hearth is much shallower than the other, putting the stove more under the lintel than behind it. Second, the lintel still gets very hot on that install, to the point where I was thinking of putting a mantel shield on that one, as well.

 

[DexterDay]

Does the stive have no UL listing tag on it? It should have a tag that lists clearances? (Maybe it doesn't). But all my stoves do. Even one made in 96.

 

[Ashful]

This stove is almost definitely newer than '96, but there are no clearances shown on the tag. The manual gives some basic clearances for front, side, and rear, but nothing for front corners to my door jambs, or lid to the lintel above.

 

[DAKSY]

From NFPA - 211:


12.2.2
Solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in
alcoves or enclosed spaces less than 512 ft3
(14.5 m3) unless specifically listed for such use.


From that wording, I'd say you CAN'T install the Jotul 12 in an alcove.
Your only option may be to get something in writing from Jotul...

 

[BrowningBAR]

This isn't an alcove, it is a fireplace.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My advice is to contact Jotul directly.

 

[DAKSY]

This isn't an alcove, it is a fireplace.

Joful wrote: "The 12 manual includes zero information on clearace requirements when installed in an alcove."

 

[BrowningBAR]

Joful wrote: "The 12 manual includes zero information on clearace requirements when installed in an alcove."

Right, the post was more to Joful than it was you. He is installing it in a fireplace. That fireplace has combustible issues due to the wood work. He really needs to call Jotul and find out the clearances. Heat shields will most likely be needed.

 

[DAKSY]

My bad...I thought you were talking to me...
Then according to NFPA-211 the top clearance to his Jotul 12 is 36".
(All unspecified clearances are 36")
He should be able to reduce that by 67% (24") with approved shielding...

 

[Ashful]

Thanks, guys. I definitely plan to talk to Jotul directly, but wanted to be a little informed before I do, so I can ask the right questions. I also don't know what kind of support they're willing to give on a non-current stove model. I'm not sure when they stopped making the F12's, but it has likely been close to 10 years.

Daksy, from where did you get the 36" top clearance? Is that just a standard clearance for all cat stoves? 3.0 cu.ft. stoves?

As BAR stated, the interest in the alcove spec was the fact that there are combustables inside my fireplace. Aside from the lintel, which will receive a heat sheild, I believe all of these combustables are more than 36" from the top of the stove. However, they are obviously in an enclosed (alcove-like) space.

Thanks!

 

[BrotherBart]

Do you mean "mantel" instead of "lintel"?

 

[DAKSY]

Daksy, from where did you get the 36" top clearance? Is that just a standard clearance for all cat stoves? 3.0 cu.ft. stoves? Thanks!

NFPA-211. I have my own copy, but I sent to one of the moderators a couple of years ago & it's in here somewhere.
That spec is the DEFAULT when there is nothing specified on the stove or in the stove installation manual...

 

[Ashful]

Do you mean "mantel" instead of "lintel"?

Nope! Mantel is about 7 feet of the floor, and not very deep. Also it has no line-of-sight to the stove with the stove tucked way back in the fireplace. I mean the heavy lintel beam which hides inside the fireplace behind the mantel. It's a 9" x 11" timber, with a bevel hewn on the back side.

In the cross-section sketch below, of the upper half of the fireplace / smoke chamber, anything shown in BROWN is wood.



The biggest challenge with regard to the lintel heat shield will be trying to keep it out of sight, and ensuring the doors can still be closed with it in place. I'd prefer a heat shield like this:



But will likely end up having to do one like this:

NFPA-211... That spec is the DEFAULT when there is nothing specified on the stove or in the stove installation manual...

Thanks. Is that the default for top clearance? I had seen 36" posted as default for rear wall clearance, but had always assumed default top clearance must be much greater.

 

[BrotherBart]

What possible reason is there for protecting the lintel from heat? Something here I don't understand. Every fireplace insert on the planet sits just under the lintel.

Edit: Just looked at your last diagrams. That fireplace makes no sense to me at all.

 

[BrotherBart]

OK. Just looked at your avatar and see what you have.​

​

Never mind.​

​

​

 

[BrowningBAR]

OK. Just looked at your avatar and see what you have.​

​

Never mind.​

​

​

Yeah, the big, old walk in fireplaces have some weird places that they decided to stick wood. Mine has some weird things going on as well, but nothing that causes any clearance issues with stoves.

 

[Ashful]

What possible reason is there for protecting the lintel from heat? Something here I don't understand. Every fireplace insert on the planet sits just under the lintel.

Edit: Just looked at your last diagrams. That fireplace makes no sense to me at all.

Looks like you figured it out! Yep... these old cooking fireplaces all have wood timbers for a lintel, where your modern fireplaces typically have angle iron. I'd think this is as common in old houses in VA, as it is around here, but maybe it's more local than I thought?

Most of these lintels are beams, roughly 10" x 10" cross section, with a bevel hewn on the backside. Some think they treated them with something to decrease their chances of burning, but I think the jury is out on that. Typical low cooking fires likely did not throw enough heat out and up toward the lintel to make it a big concern.

 

[BrotherBart]

Looks like you figured it out! Yep... these old cooking fireplaces all have wood timbers for a lintel, where your modern fireplaces typically have angle iron. I'd think this is as common in old houses in VA, as it is around here, but maybe it's more local than I thought?

Most of these lintels are beams, roughly 10" x 10" cross section, with a bevel hewn on the backside. Some think they treated them with something to decrease their chances of burning, but I think the jury is out on that. Typical low cooking fires likely did not throw enough heat out and up toward the lintel to make it a big concern.

I always noted that in the old big houses in Williamsburg that the cooking was done in a separate building behind the house. And the slave quarters was upstairs in that building.

 

[Ashful]

Most of my older houses have had a cooking fireplace in the house, in addition to a summer kitchen - a separate building, as you describe. Modern owners typically reconfigure to make this summer kitchen part of the house, and in my case, the previous owners put a Jotul 12 in that old summer kitchen fireplace. I suspect there were no African slaves in this Menonite-owned house, though.

 

[Ashful]

I talked with tech support at Jotul, who said flatly, "I don't really know what to tell you. That stove was never tested in an alcove." I had not used the word alcove myself, just stating it was going in a fireplace with a wood lintel.

After more conversation, the tech brought up the same NFPA-211 spec for 36", and knowing I only had 31", he said I could safely cut the 36" down to 18" with shielding the lintel.

As to the front corner clearance to the door jambs/casings, he said I should just use the side clearances on the Jotul 12 as my metric, stating I could reduce those by 2/3 with shielding (but never less than 12"). I see the listed side clearance is 21", and while I failed to confirm whether he meant the shielding would reduce that by 2/3 to 7" (read: 12"), or to 2/3 as in 14". Either way, I should be good to go with my 15" space.

So, it looks like all of our assumptions here were correct. The stove will indeed fit the space, with a little shielding work. It's interesting to note that the rear corner clearnaces on this stove are only 12", whereas the side clearances are 21". I wonder what the front corners would be rated, if they were rated.