Jotul F602CB, "a wild colt"

[jblivesmall]

I just installed this stove 1 week ago now in my 33' 5th wheel rv. I've live in several house with all kinds of woodstoves and I never experience one so particular with loading amounts of wood.

It seems that 1 or 2 too many pieces and the 'thing' burns so uncontrollably hot, it's concerning.

Last night I woke up at 2:30 am, a few coals left at the bottom of the stove. I thought I'd build another fire for the rest of the night. Little bit of kindling, a big knotty twisted piece of about 6 " thick, and threw a couple of pieces 2" on top of the big one ... Holly crap. The stove temp went to 550 in about 5 minutes. The front air flow damper made absolutely no difference in the intensity of the burn. I started smelling a chemical smell like melting plastic sort of smell. Freaked out. Ran outside to grab a large metal bucket. ran to my friend's house to grab her wood thongs and came back to my rv; Grabbed that big wild piece of firewood out of the inferno burning and dropped it into the metal bucket and ran outside.
Did I overreact? unsure, but I felt much better when this little colt calmed down.

Any other stove I ever operated seem to damp right down the minute I shut the air intake. This one barely reacts if the firebox is full.

feel free to share your thoughts and experience.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it sounds like you are still overreacting. 550F on the stove top is not too hot. It sounds like the stove finally got up to the temp where the paint is getting baked in. Modern stoves do not fully damper off the air supply. This is to allow a complete burn and prevent wood smoldering.

 

[jblivesmall]

Yes, it sounds like you are still overreacting. 550F on the stove top is not too hot. It sounds like the stove finally got up to the temp where the paint is getting baked in. Modern stoves do not fully damper off the air supply. This is to allow a complete burn and prevent wood smoldering.

ok. so you figure that smell was the paint? not the electrical wires in my ceiling melting?
at what Flue temperature should I get concerned?
What temp at the double wall pipe and connector of ceiling support is acceptable/safe? that is if I point my IR thermometer to the square ceiling support?

thank you!

 

[jblivesmall]

Yes, it sounds like you are still overreacting. 550F on the stove top is not too hot. It sounds like the stove finally got up to the temp where the paint is getting baked in. Modern stoves do not fully damper off the air supply. This is to allow a complete burn and prevent wood smoldering.

also, I was concerned about the 550F because it was only just the very beginning of the fire, and thought it would still climb quite a bit if I'd let it burn at this rate.

 

[begreen]

Yes, depending on the fuel it might climb to 650-700F. That would still be fine and would bake in the paint a bit more. I suggest daytime burning with varying fuel loads to get more comfortable with the stove range of operation and more predictable burns. It's common to be a bit nerve-wracking with a totally new stove.

PS: What was the 6" log wood species?

 

[nola mike]

Any other stove I ever operated seem to damp right down the minute I shut the air intake. This one barely reacts if the firebox is full.

feel free to share your thoughts and experience.

I'm with you here. Been having a ton of trouble controlling this since really day 1, even with mods to the stove and a chimney pipe damper. My stove was used/abused when I got it though, and have been trying to chase down whether it's a stove/system design problem or a malfunction on my unit. But your temps aren't anywhere near where I've been running for quite a while, especially if you're measuring at the cooktop, which tends to run ~200' hotter than the rest of the stove. A sedate burn for me is peaks ~800's on the cooktop and 6-700's just behind that. That lasts for about 30 minutes or so.

 

[firefighterjake]

Burning smell was paint curing . . .

Temps listed are within normal parameters . . .

Attempting to remove a flaming piece of wood inside a structure is sometimes, oftentimes, more dangerous than just letting the fire ride . . .


Just out of curiosity . . . are you aware that with modern woodstoves when you "close" the damper that it often makes the firebox even hotter and the flames can really start getting "exciting" when the secondary burn kicks in . . . which is entirely normal? Turning down the air with a modern woodstove will not usually dampen down the flames or heat . . . which is the opposite of non-EPA stoves.

 

[Zack R]

As others have mentioned it sounds like the paint is still curing in. Let the stove cool all the way down and then heat it back up again (for a few cycles, each one hotter than the previous) to fully cure the paint.

Based on my limited experience as long as the air control is all the way down the fire won't get out of control, but rather cruise at full throttle (with secondaries on) until it burns down the wood a bit.

For reference a hot fire on my Jotul F45 is around 600-650F on the stovetop (cruising). About the highest it will go is 700F and thats when I have a full load of dry pine running with the air intake fully open and the secondaries blazing away. A "normal" fire for me is around 400-550F.

 

[nola mike]

^+1, except that leaving your primary all the way open won't work either. The (scary, but effective) way to lower your temps during an overfire is to open the door. Wide open. The rush of air will cool it down. Nice thing about these stoves is that the N-S loading means that you don't usually have wood that wants to fall out when you open the door.


EDIT: The +1 was for Jake's comment!

 

[jblivesmall]

Yes, depending on the fuel it might climb to 650-700F. That would still be fine and would bake in the paint a bit more. I suggest daytime burning with varying fuel loads to get more comfortable with the stove range of operation and more predictable burns. It's common to be a bit nerve-wracking with a totally new stove.

PS: What was the 6" log wood species?

Thank you BG. you are right. daytime experiment, and night conservative sounds good a safe until I get to know the stove.

All the wood I am burning is Douglas Fir. I have some Cedar I only use for kindling.

One of ou main species here in the Kootenays, British Columbia Canada. One of the most sought after around here for burning, together with Larch and birch ( birch being rather rare in our area). We have tons of Lodge Pole Pine, White Pine and some Ponderosa Pine. Tons of Cedar of course.
cheers!

 

[begreen]

Knotty doug fir can pack a lot of btus, especially if it is filled with pitch. Still, I like doug fir for burning.

It's getting colder now so you can let the stove get up to 650F without baking you out of the house. the first time it gets up to this temp you will get that plastic smell, so open a window if you want to air out the house. Once the paint is fully baked this smell won't repeat.

 

[jblivesmall]

Burning smell was paint curing . . .

Temps listed are within normal parameters . . .

Attempting to remove a flaming piece of wood inside a structure is sometimes, oftentimes, more dangerous than just letting the fire ride . . .


Just out of curiosity . . . are you aware that with modern woodstoves when you "close" the damper that it often makes the firebox even hotter and the flames can really start getting "exciting" when the secondary burn kicks in . . . which is entirely normal? Turning down the air with a modern woodstove will not usually dampen down the flames or heat . . . which is the opposite of non-EPA stoves.

Well re: primary air shut = secondary kicking in, I had no idea about this no. I will try and observe this more closely, but it’s very good to know. Thanks fo that info.
ah ah, moving a burning log dangerous! ya, that was a last resprt measure. Wont get in the habit of doing that regularly.

So many people instilled fear into my head about installing a woodstove in an rv that it did het to me a little bit. In fact that is why I would like to know how much heat the double pipe can take? Is the burning temp in the pipe and chimney stays within safe levels if stove is kept within safe levels?
tks

 

[jatoxico]

So many people instilled fear into my head about installing a woodstove in an rv that it did het to me a little bit. In fact that is why I would like to know how much heat the double pipe can take? Is the burning temp in the pipe and chimney stays within safe levels if stove is kept within safe levels?

Healthy respect is good. Stove top temp does not necessarily correspond to chimney attempt. It can depend how the air is set and how much heat sending up the flue. If you're concerned get a cheapo IR Thermometer then you can see how warm different parts of the stove and stack are as well as adjacent walls etc.

 

[begreen]

The stove pipe flue gas temp will depend on the air control setting and the stove. If the stove is working well and run right the firebox temp will be hot and the flue gases less so. Our stove flue temp runs about 100F below stove top temp once the air has been shut down.
You can install a probe thermometer designed for double-wall pipe for greater peace of mind. Surface temps on double-wall pipe are not too meaningful.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/maximum-temp-for-double-wall-stove-pipe.27275/

 

[Tar12]

Well re: primary air shut = secondary kicking in, I had no idea about this no. I will try and observe this more closely, but it’s very good to know. Thanks fo that info.
ah ah, moving a burning log dangerous! ya, that was a last resprt measure. Wont get in the habit of doing that regularly.

So many people instilled fear into my head about installing a woodstove in an rv that it did het to me a little bit. In fact that is why I would like to know how much heat the double pipe can take? Is the burning temp in the pipe and chimney stays within safe levels if stove is kept within safe levels?
tks

You should be concerned and sleep with one eye open while running a stove that is not approved for your application. There is a reason why they have mobile home approved stoves..they are much safer IMO with side/back/bottom shields and require a OAK ..and your 5th wheel qualifies as mobile...I personally think you are flirting with disaster.Not to mention your insurance wouldn't pay out when it burns down Quality double wall SS is rated at 1000 degrees.

 

[jblivesmall]

ya tha

Healthy respect is good. Stove top temp does not necessarily correspond to chimney attempt. It can depend how the air is set and how much heat sending up the flue. If you're concerned get a cheapo IR Thermometer then you can see how warm different parts of the stove and stack are as well as adjacent walls etc.

I already have a IR thermo, snd I measur constantly, but nobody seems to answer my wuestions about safe temps in Flues. It’s one thing to measure, but you need to have something to reffer to in order for it to be of any use. do you know where I can find this data?

 

[jblivesmall]

what is

You should be concerned and sleep with one eye open while running a stove that is not approved for your application. There is a reason why they have mobile home approved stoves..they are much safer IMO with side/back/bottom shields and require a OAK ..and your 5th wheel qualifies as mobile...I personally think you are flirting with disaster.Not to mention your insurance wouldn't pay out when it burns down Quality double wall SS is rated at 1000 degrees.

what is “quality double wall SS”?

 

[jblivesmall]

what is IMO?
what is OAK?

You should be concerned and sleep with one eye open while running a stove that is not approved for your application. There is a reason why they have mobile home approved stoves..they are much safer IMO with side/back/bottom shields and require a OAK ..and your 5th wheel qualifies as mobile...I personally think you are flirting with disaster.Not to mention your insurance wouldn't pay out when it burns down Quality double wall SS is rated at 1000 degrees.

t

 

[jblivesmall]

what are the differences of a “mobile approved” wood stoves versus not?

what is IMO?
what is OAK?


t

 

[begreen]

ya tha

I already have a IR thermo, snd I measur constantly, but nobody seems to answer my wuestions about safe temps in Flues. It’s one thing to measure, but you need to have something to reffer to in order for it to be of any use. do you know where I can find this data?

I gave you a link that discusses double-wall temp above.

 

[begreen]

what are the differences of a “mobile approved” wood stoves versus not?

They have an outside air connection and are designed to be bolted down to the hearth/floor.

 

[Tar12]

Double wall Stainless Steel insulated stove pipe..the only way to go....IMO...In my opinion....OAK...outside air kit....The mobile home approved stoves have added safety features....heat shields all around except the top to keep from igniting combustibles in tight quarters and this greatly reduces clearance requirements...mobile home approved stoves are usually required to be bolted down via the stove legs and are usually required to have the outside air kit installed to be compliant.

 

[jblivesmall]

here are the safety measures I have taken in my install... I believe my set up exceeds the clearances in the Canadian Code etc etc.
I built a 1” off the wall porcelaine and ciment board heat shiel at the back and side in addition with the extra heatshield manifactured by Jotul.
I have a 1” ciment hearth pad tiled with 3/4” thick porcelain ceramic. I am using top of the line double wall pipe, a radiation shield/square support at he ceiling, then stainless insulated chimney.

You should be concerned and sleep with one eye open while running a stove that is not approved for your application. There is a reason why they have mobile home approved stoves..they are much safer IMO with side/back/bottom shields and require a OAK ..and your 5th wheel qualifies as mobile...I personally think you are flirting with disaster.Not to mention your insurance wouldn't pay out when it burns down Quality double wall SS is rated at 1000 degrees.

efore

 

[jblivesmall]

t

I gave you a link that discusses double-wall temp above.

thanks I had not seen it!

 

[jblivesmall]

They have an outside air connection and are designed to be bolted down to the hearth/floor.

ok. that is all? well I have an outside air intake ready to install any moment because that option is available with the Rear Heatshield manifactured by Jotul for this stove which I purchased in installed. (although at this point I dont believe I need to use it. I always have couple of windows cracked 24/7.)

I will not be travelling with this rv. it’s more of a stationary home. I actually puposely not bolted down the hearthpad, so that I can dismantle the set up when I need to move this rv onto another long temp spot. Hence neither of these creteria of “mobile certification” apply here.
Thank you BG