Jotul C 550, FierplaceEX elite 33, Napoleon 1101 Pros and cons?

[RickM]

Hi All - new to the forum but have been searching and reading for a couple of months.

Looking to install an insert to supplement heat in a 1350 sf home I recently purchased. I think have narrowed the selection down but then I find other inserts that might fit the bill. I would like to be able to run a brush up the flue from inside the insert, the units listed below appear to be obstruction free once the baffles are removed.. Flush mount is important as well as a large viewing area. I do like the double doors but not a requirement. The models I have gotten down to are:

Fireplace extrordinair 33 elite
Jotul C 550
Napoleon 1101

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also, any news on new units coming out? Are other units, i.e. VC Montpelier or Quadrafire Voyager able to have their flues cleaned from inside the stove?

Can clearances always be reduced by using a heat shield? My mantle sticks out 3.5" and is 46.5" from the hearth. The only unit that wouldn't need a shield appears to be the Elite 33. I was also told by a dealer that he wouldn't even sell me the Montpelier because it needs 47.5" to the mantle and has not been certified any other way. Is this True?

Fire place dimensions are:
40"w in the front 28" w in the rear
27h
21"d at the bottom but gently slopes to 18" at the top(appears to start sloping approx 21"
46.5" Hearth to mantle

Thanks!

ps been burning wood for 28 years - Dutchwest medium CAT

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

Personally, I like the looks of the FPX the best. It is also a steel insert, whereas the Jotul & Napoleon are both cast iron. If you want the double doors, than go with the FPX. I also think that the FPX retains the most "fireplace look", if that makes sense

Lopi & Avalon, which are owned by the same company as FPX, also both have a flush fitting insert (Lopi Declaration & Avalon Perfect Fit). The Dec., PF, & 33 are all basically the same unit, it's just a matter of what looks you prefer.

I alos heard rumor that Lopi's model is going to a single door next year.

 

[RickM]

Thanks Ski Bum... Is a steel product better for inserts?
I am familiar with the Lopi and Avalon but like the arched face plate of the FPX.

Any polace to find what is coming out this year/next year?

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

[Thanks Ski Bum... Is a steel product better for inserts?
I am familiar with the Lopi and Avalon but like the arched face plate of the FPX.

Any polace to find what is coming out this year/next year?[/quote]
I like the arched face look of the FPX over the Avalon & Lopi also.

I wouldn't say one material is neccessarily better than the other as much as they are just different heat retention capacities. From what I've heard, cast iron takes longer to heat up than steel, but also retains its heat longer after the fire's gone out/died down. So, it's more of a personal preferance I'd say. Iron units are also usually bolted together, where as steel utits are welded. Both have their pluses & minuses.

I don't know much more about what's coming out next year- I just remember someone on this forum saying that he'd heard that the Lopi Declaration was going to go to a single door next year. There's also kind of a "ghost unit" that I've heard about floating around out there- the Lopi Walden, which is/was/is going to be basically a cast iron version of the Lopi Declaration, with fancier surrround panels (similar to the panels on the other flush fitting inserts you mentioned). I think it was supposed to come out in Summer 2009, but I'm not sure if it ever came out or not- perhaps someone else on this forum will know what ever happened to it. Slightly off topic since it's not an insert, but I heard today that FPX is coming out with a new version of the 36 Elite (will be called the 36 CVT) which is a natural convection unit & can be hooked up to air distribution ducts.

Back on the topic of inserts, one common thing I've heard on these forums is that inserts, especially flush-fitting ones, work best with a blower to blow heated air out of the fireplace & into the room.

 

[Jaugust124]

Just thought I'd mention it, the Jotul is a steel stove. Only the surround is cast iron.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

Just thought I'd mention it, the Jotul is a steel stove. Only the surround is cast iron.

oops... thanks for correcting me! I'm not as familiar with Jotuls as I am with some of the other brands...

 

[begreen]

Welcome Rick. That is a wide spectrum of choices. You would probably do fine with a 2 cu ft insert. The Jotul 550 is 3 cu ft., I think the C450 is around 2 cu ft. Another stove to consider would be the PE Pacific or if you want fancier, the PE Alderlea T5 insert. The baffle drops out with one pin for easy cleaning.

 

[RickM]

Thanks BeGreen. I have looked at both the 450 and the T5 and PE Super. The T5 and Super take more hearth than I want to give up and teh 450 I thought would be too small(also only has a 2 speed blower and I would like variable with a manual override), but that being said I would still consider it if it would put out enough heat since it can be configured with double doors. Thanks for the input.

 

[canboy]

RickM: Going back to your original post....regarding the Montpelier. If you download the user manual from the website, you will see that the distance from the hearth to the mantle (if you use the 3" extension kit) is reduced to 44.5 inches. Also, just confirming that the stove can be cleaned from the inside or outside.

 

[RickM]

Thanks Burning Chunk. Did not realize there was a 3" extension avail. I guess I could give up 3" on the hearth. In looking at the manual it appears that there is a pull down bar accross the flue attachment assembly. How do you get a brush around that, or is it removable? Also, does the Montpelier use the everburn (down draft)system?

 

[canboy]

The "pull down" bar can be removed when cleaning. It also serves as protection against damage to the baffle or baffle tubes in the event that someone does a top down cleaning and forgets to remove the baffle before sending the brush down.

Regarding the Everburn system, I don't know much about it (other than it goes back a few years with VC), but have never seen it used in reference to the Montpelier. I really don't think it is the same approach that they are using with these relatively new EPA non-catalytic technology stoves.

 

[RickM]

Thanks for all the info. Still not sure which way to go.

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

Thanks for all the info. Still not sure which way to go.

Have you considered the "dartboard" option? Just put pics. of the options you're considering on a dartboard & throw a dart blindfolded at the board & go with whatever option the dart hits! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[RickM]

Might just come to that! lol

 

[KarlP]

I have experience with both the Napolean 1101 and Jotul 550. Both are steel inserts with cast iron faces.

The firebox on the 1101 starts out tiny and is subject to a buildup of coals when you run it for a long time. It heats up quickly and consumes its fuel quickly. I feel like I'm feeding it all the time but it doesn't eat much at each meal. The blower seems fairly weak to me, but it is nearly silent and does blow the air downward which warms up the floor quickly. Its easy to damage the refractory in the top of the insert if you like to jamb the thing full like I do. Those panels aren't very expensive or difficult to replace. This insert is inexpensive and probably the right size to supplement an 1350sqft house. You will probably need to use other heat when the temps drop below zero.

The 550 is built better and looks better. It should for twice the price. The 550 takes a while to come up to temperature, but once it does it throws a LOT of heat for a LONG time. The blower circulates much more air, but the blower makes more noise on high and is aimed upward. You will still get more airflow on medium where it is pretty quiet than you do on the 1101 on high. You do need to heat the whole room before the floor warms up. It's probably the right size to heat a 1350sqft house on those -15 degree nights you get every 10 years. It will take a lot of practice not to hit 80 degrees inside when its 30 degrees out.

 

[RickM]

Thanks good info. I was concerned that the 550 would be a little much but it is a fairly open floor plan and the stairway is about 10' away with no obstructions to the second floor figure a lot of heat will divert up there. Maybe the Fireplace Ex elite 33 and the Montpelier could be better suited for the space both considered medium heaters.

 

[canboy]

This link within Hearth.com provides an interesting approach to calculating the BTU's required to heat the space you have:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/how_much_heat_does_that_room_need

Lots more useful info here (in case you haven't been there):
https://www.hearth.com/what/specific.php

 

[RickM]

Great links. Thanks!

 

[flyingpig]

I've got FX33 for my medium insulated ~2000 sq.ft. home in NC.

Pros: Flush mount = Safer for kids. Heat the whole house well (1F ~ 72F, 2F ~ 68F). Fan not too loud. Draft well with 28ft uninsulated liner.
Cons: Either full blast or die (it's not CAT). Doesn't last 12 hours like Lopi said (~ 8 hours so far). And it won't work well w/o fan (consideration for emergency heat).

I like it so far. But I may go for a heart stove next time for the flexibility during the power outage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HOvBYuiBVI

Cheers......Som

 

[RickM]

Som, Thanks for the input. Was wondering how the install went, any issues/difficulties and do you find the opening difficult to load wood or clean ashes. I was a little surprized when I saw one in person that the opening was not as high as it appeared in the pictures. Also, does it work well if you burn with the doors open for that occasional open fireplace feel?

 

[flyingpig]

Hi Rick,

The firebox is by no mean small, at 2.9 sq.ft. But it's wide and "low" like pizza oven. So I'd recommend that you raise up at least 6" from the floor. That'll make it's much easier to refuel and clean the ash. Mine is installed right on the floor so it works but it's a bit harder to bend down to see the firebox. You can search in this forum for a picture of raised hearth for this model.

And yes, you can burn with the door open. But you won't get much heat to your room since majority of the heat will go up the flue. Also don't go beyond 2-3 logs in that case. A firebox full of woods & unlimited oxygen can easily put any EPA stove out of control.

Cheers......Som

 

[RickM]

Som, this would be going on an 8" raised hearth so I would guess loading and cleaning would not be an issue. How about fan noise? Is it very noticable?

 

[flyingpig]

Fan noise is not too bad. My insert is in the same room as TV. If we want to watch TV, I'll need to turn fan to low to medium so that it's not too loud and not too hot for that room. During that time the other room might be a bit cooler, but not that much. Otherwise, I'll leave it on high so that we can maximize the heat output.

Cheers.....Som

 

[RickM]

Noise is probably on par with most other units. Are you happy with the viewing area or would have liked it larger? What other inserts did you consider? Could measure the glass at it's widest and longest places and let me know?
Thanks for all the help!

 

[EJL923]

i can give you very good feedback as i am almost through two full seasons with the Rockland. I did notice that this season they changed the design and added a fourth burn tube on top as well as extra brick on top of the baffle. This should only add to the efficiency of the stove. I dont like to talk about burn times because they are very subjective in how people burn their stove, house layout, insulation, wood type, etc.. Last year, i burned about 4.5 cords in a 2300 sq ft cape. I would say my insulation is ok, not great. There are some areas of my house which need a tune up. This year was more prob about 5 cords when all is said and done. My downstirs stays about 68, upstairs about 62 on the cold days, less than 20°. Again, i am heating a 2300 sq ft house with a 1800 sq ft rated stove. Last year i burned about a tank of oil in supplemental heat. Its ok in my book, i dont even want to know how much oil i would burn without the stove. I would prob have to get another job.

The looks of the stove are the best out there IMO, a big reason we got it. The glass on the door has a huge viewing area. If you want flush face, there are tradeoffs. In fact, all inserts suffer from the same thing, dont plan on not running the blower. You will not get a lot of radiant heat from an insert. I grew up with a regular wood stove, so it was much different when i started running the insert. The flush face looks great, but you are always relying on the blower, so get a quiet blower. The rockland is variable speed, and even on high it can be tolerated. I will say that the stove runs on the other side of a connected living / family room. (TV in living room).

I never had any issues with draft, i have a 23' interior chimney that screams, i wish i could slow it down. (Cant put a damper on an insert in most cases). I only had to clean the chimney in the spring. I inspected all winter and was surprised by the efficiency.

Personally i think the Rockland is the perfect size for a 1350 sq ft house, which allows you to keep the blower lower. I obviously cant speak for the other stoves, only my personal experience. Im actually thinking about selling mine for a bigger stove. IMO, always, always always oversize an insert. It gets to hot, turn down the blower.


Le tme know if you have any questions