Jotul 602 or Englander 17vl

[13island]

We've recently purchased an uninsulated i.e. No insulation 26'x20' cabin. It had been heated with an old Findlay oval. Not possible to make this stove safe. I'm located in eastern Ontario south of Ottawa. The road access is three season. I'm hoping to get a wood stove to extend the shoulder seasons. I would also like the option of coming in by snowmobile.

Based on the size of the cabin I've narrowed it down to a couple possibilities.

A jotul 602 or an Englander 17vl. In either case the wood stove will only see minimal use.

My wife likes the looks of the jotul more and the way it's loaded. The Englander doesn't stick out quite as far.

Will the Englander be as durable as the jotul?

Any reason I can't cook on the Englander?

No electricity available and I'd rather not use propane. Currently, I'm using a kerosene space heater.

Any thoughts one way or the other? Am I missing something.

Thanks

 

[begreen]

IIRC the Englander 17VL's top is a convection stove top. It would be too cool for boiling water. The Jotul's stove top has a cook plate that will get hotter. This would be the better stove for cooking. I'd also consider looking at the Englander 13NC stove. It will provide a longer burn time and a nice fireview, with a stove top you can cook on. The only caveats being that it should be ordered with the side shields if clearances are an issue and it needs a well insulated hearth (not an issue if on a cement slab floor).
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-1-800-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-13-NCH/100157775

 

[13island]

i like that it could maybe last overnight and take larger sticks. In terms of flooring it is plywood, the cabin is an old Sears kit. I was going to put some steel on the floor. Might it be too much stove for the space?

 

[begreen]

I don't think it would be too much heat for the space. It takes a lot of btus to warm up all the mass in a cabin from 40º. You control the heat output according to the amount of fuel put in the stove. Just burn a few splits if you want less heat. My guess is that in 45º weather you would build a full fire to get the place warm and then just add a couple splits at a time to keep the fire going. The 13NC will need a proper hearth though which requires a 2.0 insulation value.

Another stove that is a good simple cabin heater is the True North TN20. It's hearth requirements are much easier. It just needs non-combustible ember protection. An Imperial stove board BM0308RC 40" x 50" or larger would suffice.

 

[jungmaria]

We've recently purchased an uninsulated i.e. No insulation 26'x20' cabin. It had been heated with an old Findlay oval. Not possible to make this stove safe. I'm located in eastern Ontario south of Ottawa. The road access is three season. I'm hoping to get a wood stove to extend the shoulder seasons. I would also like the option of coming in by snowmobile.

Based on the size of the cabin I've narrowed it down to a couple possibilities.

A jotul 602 or an Englander 17vl. In either case the wood stove will only see minimal use.

My wife likes the looks of the jotul more and the way it's loaded. The Englander doesn't stick out quite as far.

Will the Englander be as durable as the jotul?

Any reason I can't cook on the Englander?

No electricity available and I'd rather not use propane. Currently, I'm using a kerosene space heater.

Any thoughts one way or the other? Am I missing something.

Thanks

Funny, I just moved my mom's old Findlay Oval into my 450 sq ft cabin in Eastern Ont yesterday. I grew up with this stove and intend to use it for cooking and warmth. I had looked at the Jotul and PE but in the end decided that the Oval is not only beautiful, but I can't wait to cook on it again too (it's in an addition that can be closed off so hopefully it won't cook us out). Oh and it was free! Is there something wrong with the one that's there? Why isn't it safe?

 

[13island]

Funny, I just moved my mom's old Findlay Oval into my 450 sq ft cabin in Eastern Ont yesterday. I grew up with this stove and intend to use it for cooking and warmth. I had looked at the Jotul and PE but in the end decided that the Oval is not only beautiful, but I can't wait to cook on it again too (it's in an addition that can be closed off so hopefully it won't cook us out). Oh and it was free! Is there something wrong with the one that's there? Why isn't it safe?

The stove was made in 1910. It might be able to be made safe just not in my space with the required set backs. It just won't work. My preference was to use it but my local chimney sweep pretty much said "no way".

I'll be posting it on kijiji before long.

I have a pacific energy super 27 step top which I really like. I see the tn20 suggested by begreen is made by PE as well. I had short listed it originally but ruled it out because I thought it would be too much stove. Begreen is convincing me otherwise.

Checking prices on the tn20 tomorrow.

Jotul 602 $1280
Englander 17vl $750
Englander 13nc $890. Thicker hearth required or at least something with a higher R value. Eliminated.
True north tn20 ???

 

[begreen]

Not sure the price of the TN 20 in Canada but I would guess around $1000.

 

[13island]

Not sure the price of the TN 20 in Canada but I would guess around $1000.

I'll get a quote and post tomorrow for reference. Thanks.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have a t5, the same stove as your 27, in a 16x25 cabin in the Adirondacks. The extra size is needed when bringing the temp up from the ambient temp in January and February. It's too much stove above, say freezing. I use electric or make sure I cook something heavy on the stove then. My big heat loss is from the wind.

 

[Cynnergy]

We have a super27 in an uninsulated 30x20 ft cabin on the BC coast. As BG says, it's not too much stove when you get there and need to heat up the space (walls, furniture, books, etc) from 5C. We manage to keep things mostly in the right range after warm-up by a combo of quantity of wood and species. Low-BTU wood species can actually be very helpful. We use Doug Fir here for warm-up and alder for maintaining temps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[begreen]

In milder weather just burn a few splits at a time. Then it will operate like a smaller stove.

 

[13island]

Tried to get a quote for the tn-20. Local dealer said "box store junk, can't stand behind it won't sell it".

Quoted
Pe vista at $1772
Pe super 27 at $2178

 

[begreen]

Tried to get a quote for the tn-20. Local dealer said "box store junk, can't stand behind it won't sell it".

Translation: It's a low profit item. For your cabin this would be a good stove. Did you try their dealer locator?
(broken link removed to http://truenorthstoves.com/en/find-a-dealer)

 

[13island]

That was one of thei dealers.... From that exact website

 

[begreen]

Expand the range to 25 miles, there should be more listed.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

My PE dealer, who was less than desirable, didn't carry it either. He'd never heard of it. He was able to find one 5 hours away that he could ship in though. *Rolls eyes*

He wanted to sell the 27 for 2100, t5 for 2500.

 

[13island]

Got the tn20 today. $1190. The different dealer sang the praises of the stove. Pretty stark difference.

 

[begreen]

Got the tn20 today. $1190. The different dealer sang the praises of the stove. Pretty stark difference.

Congrats! It's a good basic stove. We had one fellow years back heating his cabin with a TN19 in Wyoming. He liked it a lot.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Pics needed when you get it in!

 

[13island]

So moving ahead with the install. I contacted my installer as we have to install a chimney etc... We are just in charge of laying down the floor protection. I informed him we planned on just using a piece of sheet steel (the stove board suggested by begreen). The installer was worried about it not being approved by the building inspector. We followed up with the inspector and he said that the stove board was unacceptable because it didn't say it was specifically for ember protection. Then he said we could just lay down a 24 gauge piece of sheet metal.

The TN-20 manual says only ember protection is required and that it needs to have a minimum K value of 23.7 btu/ft h ° F equivalent to 20 gauge steel. Now when I work out the R value it's like 0.0001 which is pretty close to zero. The imperial stove board clearly states it is only for Ember protection and has a R value = 0.

So I figure I have two options call Imperial and see what gauge thickness the stove board. If it is 20 gauge it satisfies my stove requirements and technically the 24 gauge requirement of the Township.

or

Just go to a place that sells sheet metal goods and buy a 40"x50" 20 gauge steel sheet.

Is my reasoning sound?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Yes, ember protection simple means a non-combustible barrier that stops a hot ember from burning the floor. Either strategy would work. Sheet metal typically comes in 36", 48" and 60" wide sheets.

 

[13island]

Just for reference I spoke with imperial this morning. There type 1 board is not suitable for the TN-20 because it has no R-value. It's not metal it is a type of fibre board; the cost here is $139.99.

I called a sheet metal place. For a 40"x50" 20 gauge piece of sheet metal the cost is $28. I'll probably have to prime and paint it so that will at about $15.

 

[bholler]

Just for reference I spoke with imperial this morning. There type 1 board is not suitable for the TN-20 because it has no R-value. It's not metal it is a type of fibre board; the cost here is $139.99.

I called a sheet metal place. For a 40"x50" 20 gauge piece of sheet metal the cost is $28. I'll probably have to prime and paint it so that will at about $15.

A sheet of steel has no real r value either

 

[13island]

You are right. But the 20 gauge steel meets the minimum requirements and the type 1 stove board from imperial does not.

Just providing the info in case someone else is looking at the same thing. A little cost info as well for a humble cabin.

 

[bholler]

You are right. But the 20 gauge steel meets the minimum requirements and the type 1 stove board from imperial does not.

Just providing the info in case someone else is looking at the same thing. A little cost info as well for a humble cabin.

Why not it has a layer of steel over mineral board. And it is a ul and ulc listed type 1 stove board.