I've done some searching...looking for advice

[elijah]

Let me start by saying this forum is incredible. Nothing speaks as loud as experience, so I'm grateful to those that have shared and will share.

I'm in a neighborhood of cookie cutter homes and mine is 2 stories, built in 2004. A big box with an L shape of living space downstairs (the garage isn't getting heated), living room, dining room and kitchen, no walls separating the areas. Upstairs are the 4 bedrooms. There are 2 bedrooms that are above the garage which fill in the 'L' shape upstairs, so it is all living space upstairs. The stairs are in the living area where the stove will be. It is roughly 700 feet downstairs and about a 1000 feet upstairs. I'm having a hard time deciding on the free standing wood burning stove capacity that I'll need for this home. I don't want to cook us out of the home. Will a lot of the heat rise, to the extent that I shouldn't plan on the upstairs footage as needing to be included in the stove's capacity? The home is well insulated and I haven't noticed any drafts, etc.

I'm leaning towards the Jotul line right now as the local hearth and home shop has a sale on them as well as their great reputation.

All insights and opinions are much appreciated.

 

[webby3650]

Can't go wrong with Jotul. Plan on heating the entire space, even if it isn't entirely possible, you are gonna try, I promise! :coolsmirk:

 

[fbelec]

welcome to the forum
get something that has at least a 2000 square foot rating. the stove companys always highball the ratings. yes a stove that is made for 1500 square can heat your house but it will be working to do so. meaning loading often and not getting a overnight burn. but i would not go above the 2400 square rating. i speak from experience when i say, having a stove to big is a pain in the butt.

 

[Wet1]

What are your goals for this stove? How often do you plan on burning? Do you have any plans of burning 24/7? If so, get something big enough that you can easily burn 9 hours plus. I say this because you'll grow pretty tired of waking up at 3AM to reload the stove every night and coming home to a cool house, having to relight the fire when you walk in the door.

I absolutely LOVE the looks of the Jotul line. But IMO (and it's only that) they seem to have a hole in their lineup. The F400 is too small for a 24/7 burner, unless your retired and don't mind feeding the stove around the clock. The F500 is a little better in this regard, be just yesterday there was a thread asking how to get an 8 hour burn out of the F500 (and the responses varied for 'you can't' to 'mine will do it, if...'), so I'd have a hard time recommending this stove for a 24/7 burner (which most of us become in time). The F600 seems to be a big jump from the F500. I don't know much about it, but it looks like it could be too much stove for someone like you. I'm guessing a something right in between would be about right, but that doesn't help you.

Even though I really like the Jotuls, I'd suggest you look at other stoves. My first choice for your application would be a cat stove. They can be turned way down if need be and will offer much longer and consistent burns (12 hrs+). They wont blow you out of the house, yet are capable of meeting all your heating needs. I'd look at the Woodstock Fireview or the Blaze King Princess, both are highly rated stoves. The WS FV is nice looking soapstone stove with a smaller fire box, but it should meet you needs. The BKP is a steel stove, but it has a larger firebox, an automatic thermostat (no fiddling with the air), and will do 20+ hour burns. If performance is your only critera, I don't think you'll find a better stove.

If you're stuck on going with a non-cat, I'd look for a stove with a 2.5 to 3 cu ft fire box.

 

[elijah]

Some good points mentioned here. I never thought of looking into the cat stoves just because of the maintenance and replacement of the catalyst itself. But now that I think about it, if the cat-style allows 12 hour burns, that might really be worth looking into.

My goals with this stove are that it can be my primary source of heating, I'd like to have no concerns of others (wife and mother in law) being able to easily start a fire - in other words not finicky or have to many special tricks to get it to start and burn correctly, and lastly I'd like it to be able to heat the whole home. I'm not looking for 75 degree house wide temps either, just looking for a comfortable 67-68 degrees in the upstairs bedrooms when my outside temps are in the low 20s at night and high 30s during the day.

I was concerned that the larger stoves, ie. black bear would be to much for the home and concerned that the 602 cb would not quite be enough for the heat to get to the upstairs. Most of our time is spent on the main floor and we're really only upstairs while in bed.

Keep the thoughts and opinions coming, I'm learning great stuff here

 

[Wet1]

Based on this, I'd highly recommend looking at the two cat stoves I mentioned. The WS is the looker with decent performance. The BK will have unmatched flexibility and long burn performance. Both will be very easy to use and maintain. Speaking of which, the BK can hold several weeks worth of ashes before it will need to be cleaned out. This and the automatic air control make it exceptionally user friendly.

 

[elijah]

I'm leaning now towards the black bear stove from Jotul. It seems to have a good burn time and good support and reviews. I hope that it can be adjusted low enough that it won't be too hot and that I can burn through the night without having to restart the fire.

Opinions?

 

[webby3650]

I'm leaning now towards the black bear stove from Jotul. It seems to have a good burn time and good support and reviews. I hope that it can be adjusted low enough that it won't be too hot and that I can burn through the night without having to restart the fire.

Opinions?

The Black Bear will throw some heat, but the firebox size can be very frustrating, it tapers toward the back and is very skinny. I had a 118 (that is what the Black Bear used to be called), it would do good but definitely not a whole house heater.

 

[elijah]

Wow, I'm surprised that you say the black bear wouldn't be a good whole house heater for me. I was thinking that it's rated for heating up to 1800 square feet and I'm under 1700 feet. I'm gonna need to check out some reviews and see some other opinions on whether this stove worked out well for this kind of heating for others. I thought I finally had it figured out! I'm grateful for the suggestions and opinions because one way or the other it will help me to be sure about which way I go with this and that the way we do finally go will be the right way!

 

[rdust]

Wow, I'm surprised that you say the black bear wouldn't be a good whole house heater for me. I was thinking that it's rated for heating up to 1800 square feet and I'm under 1700 feet. I'm gonna need to check out some reviews and see some other opinions on whether this stove worked out well for this kind of heating for others. I thought I finally had it figured out! I'm grateful for the suggestions and opinions because one way or the other it will help me to be sure about which way I go with this and that the way we do finally go will be the right way!

From what I've gathered here you can take a good amount of time off listed burn times in most cases with a non cat stove. What size is the firebox on the black bear? Some times you'll hear advise you don't want to hear around here but the members on this site are real life users and their advise is sound.(most members anyway) I try to read and listen as much as I can being a first year burner.

The CAT guys will recommend a CAT stove, the non-CAT steel stove guys will recommend a non-CAT steel stove, the soap stone guys will recommend a soap stone stove and the Cast stove guys...you guessed it will recommend their style stove. I think almost everyone will say to stay away from the current VC line up.

 

[fbelec]

here is a real life exp. you have to heat 1700 sq ft. you need a stove that will heat 2000 because yes that stove will heat 1800 but that is running it hard. here is the real life. i had a small stove in my basement. it was a japanese knock off of the jotul 602. made by scandia. it think that was a japanese stove. i've got a 1232 sq ft basement. half finished. the stove is in the unfinished side. for me to get that space heated along with the finished side i needed to run that stove so hard that a few times i've seen the cooking top glowing red. it heated the space but ran it way to hard and had to feed it every two hours. and because of feeding it the 3 splits of wood size box got small quick because of the ash buildup. it's a pain running a stove that's to small. what ever the stove company says it will heat add on a few hundred to thier rating for real life action. so what alot of the members here will say is get the biggest firebox you can fit in your space without being to big or to small. i damaged that stove. the sides had fire brick that went up the sides 3/4 off the way. then the baffle sat on them. where there wasn't any brick above the baffle the sides of the stove turned a permenant white. which means the cast metal is no good.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts from a random mind . . .

There are many great stove brands out there so you may not want to limit yourself to just one brand.

That said, I have a Jotul and I couldn't be happier . . . well maybe if I had gone with a different finish and if they had fixed that pesky ash falling out of the front when the door is opened . . . but one is my fault, the other issue is minor.

Some good advice on going a bit larger than what you think you need . . . the specs given by nearly every manufacturer are based on optimal situations in lab testing (i.e. they're not factoring in what the weather is like in your area, how bad the winds may be, what your home has for insulation, etc.) . . . and the "burn time" numbers . . . this is hard to quantify . . . to me "burn time" is the number of hours that I get meaningful heat from my woodstove . . . but perhaps others would consider the defniition of burn time to be the time from when the fire is lit to when the fire is completely out or maybe the time of meaningful heat to the time when you still have coals in the stove emitting heat . . . the point is . . . just use the manufacturing specs as a rough guideline.

I think you would find the BlackBear is not really that "large" of a woodstove . . . honestly, in your case I might suggest the Castine or Oslo. One bit of very good advice I took away from this site when I was looking for a stove was to figure out the space you need to heat and then look at stoves that are just one size larger than what you need to heat -- a) due to the optimum conditions/manufacturing specs already mentioned in my post and b) fbelec made some good points about not overtaxing your stove . . . it's easier to build small fires in a large firebox than it is to build larger fires in too small of a firebox.

In my own home I have moderate insulation in a two-story Cape built in the 1970s . . . about 1,200 sq. ft. downstairs and 600-800 upstairs . . . for me the Oslo heats up the place extremely well . . . and yes . . . as you may have surmised . . . heat naturally rises . . . however I do help it a bit by circulating the heat around through the use of a floor fan blowing towards the woodstove. I can get blown away by the heat (especially during this time of year . . . when my wife . . . or me . . . add too much wood to the fire too frequently) . .. but you can moderate the amount of heat fairly easily by how often you load the firebox, what type of wood you load in the firebox and how much you load into the firebox . . . of course if worse comes to worse you can always simply open a window and contribute to global warming.

 

[elijah]

Great advice being given here from fbelec and firefighterjake, and this is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm also starting to think that even the black bear won't be enough stove for me. There is an Oslo for sale locally for 1300 bucks that is a couple years old that I'm gonna look into now. I hope that having this big of a stove in this smallish 700 ft main floor area isn't going to be too much. I guess I could always do some kind of ceiling to floor venting on the main level to help the heat get up stairs.

So ffjake, what is a realistic burn time from your oslo? I'm thinking of burn time as when fire is actually going, to the point of where you still have coals hot enough to throw on a couple logs and they catch.

Thanks for the time you folks put into typing up your real life experiences, thus helping us newbs make good choices with our stoves.

 

[firefighterjake]

Great advice being given here from fbelec and firefighterjake, and this is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm also starting to think that even the black bear won't be enough stove for me. There is an Oslo for sale locally for 1300 bucks that is a couple years old that I'm gonna look into now. I hope that having this big of a stove in this smallish 700 ft main floor area isn't going to be too much. I guess I could always do some kind of ceiling to floor venting on the main level to help the heat get up stairs.

So ffjake, what is a realistic burn time from your oslo? I'm thinking of burn time as when fire is actually going, to the point of where you still have coals hot enough to throw on a couple logs and they catch.

Thanks for the time you folks put into typing up your real life experiences, thus helping us newbs make good choices with our stoves.

Decent price on a used Oslo . . . bear in mind that if this Oslo is only a few years old (and all new Oslos for that matter) would qualify for the 30% tax credit so that would "lower" your end cost in the end . . . but also keep in mind that buying a stove is only half the purchase . . . the other half is purchasing the chimney or chimney liner if needed.

One other issue to keep in mind is whether you know what to look for when buying a used stove . . . the last thing you want to do is buy a stove and find out it has been abused or has faulty parts due to owner neglect. Tip: if the seller says the stove was only used once a week by a little old lady who only fired it up on Sundays after going to church he may be lying. When I first started looking at stoves I had no clue what to look for and so I was better served by going new.

Again, I think the Black Bear would be on the smallish side for you and the Castine or Oslo would be a better fit.

Burn time . . . depends . . . depends on your definition of burn time . . . and depends on what wood I'm using. Right now I'm using "junk" wood -- a mix of soft and hardwood, mostly odd-ball pieces and chunks and I'm able to reload at 9 or 10 a.m. and get up at 5-5:30 in the morning and either see coals or rake up the ash and have coals . . . stove is running around 100-150 degrees . . . so not putting out any meaningful heat . . . but it is easier and quicker to get a fire going when you have coals in there.

Hopefully later on in the season when I start burning the "good stuff" I'll have more coals -- I don't expect an all night fire, but it will be nice to have larger chunks of coals in the firebox in the morning.

 

[elijah]

Well, I think we finally decided. We want to go with the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. Seems to be exactly what we are looking for out of a stove. Long burn times but not overwhelming BTU's. Also has incredible clearances to combustible walls! 4 inches! Perfect for my tiny little main living area. Won't end up taking near as much room as I had originally planned. Will be getting in touch with a local dealer tomorrow to see the prices he can do. Can't wait!

 

[fbelec]

Well, I think we finally decided. We want to go with the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. Seems to be exactly what we are looking for out of a stove. Long burn times but not overwhelming BTU's. Also has incredible clearances to combustible walls! 4 inches! Perfect for my tiny little main living area. Won't end up taking near as much room as I had originally planned. Will be getting in touch with a local dealer tomorrow to see the prices he can do. Can't wait!

that looks like a great stove. got to love the hidden cook top.

 

[firefighterjake]

Well, I think we finally decided. We want to go with the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. Seems to be exactly what we are looking for out of a stove. Long burn times but not overwhelming BTU's. Also has incredible clearances to combustible walls! 4 inches! Perfect for my tiny little main living area. Won't end up taking near as much room as I had originally planned. Will be getting in touch with a local dealer tomorrow to see the prices he can do. Can't wait!

A lot of folks here say very good things about this PE line of stoves . . . one of the ones I strongly considered myself when I was looking at stoves. I think this is a good choice as well.

 

[elijah]

Wanted to provide some closure to this thread. We did end up going with the Alderlea T5 and we are extremely happy with it. This stove is incredibly efficient and the stated burn time is definitely understated. The workmanship is extremely high quality and we couldn't be happier. It is not finnicky at all and doesn't require any special steps to start a fire or maintain one. We built our own hearth pad out of slate stone tiles and cemented them down to 3/4 inch plywood and made it a few inches bigger than required. One 8 inch round dry poplar log about 16 inches long is lasting 7-8 hours. Pacific Energy is definitley the cat's meow! Very high quality and beautifully built. Thanks to all who helped with their advice!

 

[Wet1]

Wanted to provide some closure to this thread. We did end up going with the Alderlea T5 and we are extremely happy with it. This stove is incredibly efficient and the stated burn time is definitely understated. The workmanship is extremely high quality and we couldn't be happier. It is not finnicky at all and doesn't require any special steps to start a fire or maintain one. We built our own hearth pad out of slate stone tiles and cemented them down to 3/4 inch plywood and made it a few inches bigger than required. One 8 inch round dry poplar log about 16 inches long is lasting 7-8 hours. Pacific Energy is definitley the cat's meow! Very high quality and beautifully built. Thanks to all who helped with their advice!

Glad to hear you're happy wit the new stove, congrats!

BTW, you might be setting a record for longest burn time with a single piece of poplar! :cheese:

 

[elijah]

I was thinking the same thing on the lil' poplar log. How could they be lasting that long? I have the stove all the way down, just a bump up from the lowest setting and three nights in a row these logs are burning this way. Plenty of red coals so that the wood in the morning fires up on it's own.

 

[fredarm]

Enjoy your T5. PE's rock!

 

[Mr. Kelly]

Nice stove choice!

How much are you burning? Are you attempting 24/7 burning?

How much of your house is the heat reaching?

What kind of wood purchase/acquire did you do?

 

[elijah]

We are burning 24/7 even though it is still getting into the upper 50's these last few days. The main floor where the stove is located is a cozy 75-78 pretty much around the clock. I usually put in a split when I get home around 5:00 pm and then around 9:30-10:00 I stir up the coals and put in a 6 to 8 inch log for the night. I wake up at 5 am and rake the coals and put a split or two in. Then the mother in law throws on a couple splits a couple times during the day til I get home. Surprisingly the heat has been traveling well through the home. The bedrooms upstairs are very comfortable probably right around 70 degrees.

The wood we are currently burning was from a giant dead poplar that was dropped. It had been dead for a few years and a week after splitting the logs it was plenty dry. This stove has been an absolute pleasure to use and my wife and I couldn't be happier with the purchase.

 

[rustynut]

elijah,
did you say that you put the slate tile right down on the 3/4 plywood ?
somebody correct me if i'm wrong but that sounds a bit light for
hearth protection ???
rn

 

[elijah]

Yep, directly on the cement directly one the plywood and 4" from the drywall on the corners of the stove (corner set up). The stove has a heat shield on the bottom and the hearth pad is more than sufficient according to the manufacturers requirements. Thanks for worrying though!

Actually you got me curious and so I just touched the hearth pad under the stove and shield and it is slightly warm. Love this stove.