I can't believe the mortar they left hanging out of the joints, how could you get a rectangle wire chimney brush down this thing or clean it. Is this normal?
Is this normal or sloppy work
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I can't believe the mortar they left hanging out of the joints, how could you get a rectangle wire chimney brush down this thing or clean it. Is this normal?
Its normal sloppy work. Masons rarely take much care to make the inside of a flue or Fireplace look nice. A brush will go down it ok though.
Ok, I was going to order a wire rectangle brush but wasn't sure it would go past.
Like it would of taken all but one second to scrape it clean when it was wet. Lazy.
Better to have too much than not enough in the joints. The big chunks will usually break off. It is going to build up creosote more than smooth pipe.
When I worked for masons I specifically remember all the joints being tooled flush. Picture an unlined chimney done the same way. When we repaired or rebuilt chimney tops we encountered some old unlined chimneys that looked like that at every coarse of brick.
Jeremy8916
Member
Mine looked like this when i lined it with stainless. One of the tiles was even offset an inch.
Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
If each of those tiles is quite tall wouldn’t it be hard to reach in to knock that mortar off during construction? Also risk knocking it out of plumb when the mortar is wet?
Kind of, especially if you're not at the right height on scaffold, but I've never met a flue joint I couldn't cut flush one way or another. I usually like to "fingerjoint" them with a glove, as I can feel if they're full or not. If I can't do that, there's always a filler/tuckpointer, trowel, level, anything within reach that will get them flushed out.
Pictures sure can be deceiving, the depth is about the distance from your elbow to your hand and the mortar is about an inch thick, I don't see it breaking off, the house was built in the 80's.
I searched for a certified chimney sweep in my area to remove all the creosote before I install a liner, she was very nice on the phone and explained to me the different stages of creosote, she kept mentioning that she was not cheap, starting anywhere from $1000, to $2000, depending on the severity of the creosote. I know it's a messy nasty job, but does that price sound average.
Husky
Feeling the Heat
That's awful high for where I live. Before I got a stainless liner, a certified sweep would do mine for around $200. That was around 3 to 4 years ago.
Did you look at the job after they we're finished, could you visually tell that all the black was removed. I'm just trying to get a frame of reference of what it should look like once it's cleaned correctly. I have been up inside the fireplace and have seen all the nasty cracks and crevices and wondering how they can remove all the creosote from those areas.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
$2000 to sweep? If breaking out tiles or chemically cleaning a messy stage 3 coated flue then maybe so, IDK. My untrained eyes see that the mortar joints are gray and the system looks lightly used. Cleaning that should not cost $2000 unless they're hiring a helicopter to access the roof.
Maybe she meant she was to install the liner as well?
Maybe she meant she was to install the liner as well?
Squisher
Minister of Fire
2g us $ to clean? That's ridiculous. My basic cleaning is $150cdn. That's the going rate around here I'm not the only sweep. If I'm there already and am going to chain it I charge an additional $100. So $250cdn to sweep and chain.
That flue looks very clean to me already from that pic.
That flue looks very clean to me already from that pic.
No that is extremly high unless that includes the liner install as well. And the 2000 would be high unless it included the liner and install. I would bet that is the price she was goving you. But i agree with squisher it doesnt look very dirty at all. I would run chains anyway to knock off as much of the mortar as possible if not taking out the liners to make room for insulation.
Thanks for all your opinions, very helpful. she was aware I would be doing the install myself, and to be fair I think she was preparing me for the worst scenario but I got the feeling she was very expensive or over priced.
Can you guys give me a frame of reference of how clean the chimney needs to be to install a liner. I have hit the areas with a wire brush and it does not remove the black, then I tried 1/2 salt mixed with dishwashing detergent and ammonia and it did remove a little of the black just not all (very time consuming). then I tried a wire cup brush in a hand grinder and of course that removes the plaster and the creosote. So what should I expect it to look like done right from a professional chimney sweep. Will all the black be gone.
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jatoxico
Minister of Fire
What are you installing, stove, insert? I think you're taking this farther than it needs to go. It doesn't need to be free of any discoloration and a sweep is not going to bring it back to what it looked like when freshly installed.
Take this for what its worth but if the pictures you sent are actually representative of how it looks you're already good to go. Get an inspection, let them brush if they think they need to and go. If you want to clean up the firebox for looks maybe some TSP.
Take this for what its worth but if the pictures you sent are actually representative of how it looks you're already good to go. Get an inspection, let them brush if they think they need to and go. If you want to clean up the firebox for looks maybe some TSP.
Im dealing with a troubleshooting issue with many factors, an insert installed with a flue that was reduced from 8" to 6", smoke leaking into the house, a chemical paint smell and other isssues, so I wanted to eliminate any possibility of these smells if in fact they we're coming from a dirty brick chimney. If your interested this was my first thread on the matter. Thanks for you help, much appreciated.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/smoke-in-house-country-elite-e260-insert.165761/
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Ok I remember now. I think you ruled out a dirty chimney as the cause of your smoke smell. Not to say you might not get a whiff of smell on the first couple hot fires but it does not seem to have been the cause of your problem. You mentioned you are going to insulate the liner. That would all but eliminate any issue.
I would say it was poor draft due to reduced length and reduction as you mentioned and possibly the unit has just never gotten that hot. So the despite being on the older side the paint still needs to be baked off.
I am planning on correcting all the issues, like installing a 8" liner and all the other things that don't look right. I just want to make sure I am not skipping any important steps like not cleaning the chimney properly putting everything back together and finding out that was one of the contributing factors.
When running an insert with a insulate liner what are the max temperatures do you think the chimney bricks can reach? and could they get hot enough to produce smoke?
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
I can't answer your question with any specific temp. Inserts are jacketed so while the outer jacket gets plenty hot it will not be nearly as hot as the top of a free standing stove. I have an insert and I can tell you my firebox was a bit dirtier than yours and had some smells for the first couple fires but nothing I didn't expect. I can't access the area behind the insert w/ an IR to give you an actual temp reading though.
The area where the stove vents and the first couple feet of liner get hot indeed but the idea in cleaning the chimney and firebox is too assure there's no accumulated creosote (esp glazed) that could result in a chimney fire outside the stove or liner and from what I see you're good in that respect. Suck any crap from the smoke shelf though as that's an area that can accumulate debris.
From the pictures from the other thread you had scorched insulating material. It was hard for me to tell where that was in the system but as far as I can tell that should not be and maybe was the main reason for smoke in house (?).
Once you get a properly installed liner of the right length, sure you will "burn" off some of the stuff on the brick. Some is just dust and dirt but I don't see anything that's going to lead to a fire outside of the stove or liner.
I also noticed you have two AC (?) units on either side of the chimney. Are they allowing air to be pulled in when you run the stove? Other contributors to bad draft include clothes driers, bath fans etc. Anything that creates (-) pressure relative to outside causing inflow of air.
I think you will be OK once you get the new taller liner in but just some other things to consider.
The scorched ceramic insulation was what the installer used to block off air gaps because he used a connector that did not fit properly, I have ordered the proper connector.
The installation instructions said when connecting the insert to a positive flue that the surround insulation needs to be removed and a 1/4" air gap between the surround and the brick face are left. The one thing the instructions did not mention is if you have an outside air vent leading into the fire box area, should that be closed or left open.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
I had something similar and chose to close it. If your insert can accommodate an outdoor air kit perhaps it could be used for that but otherwise it's just a air leak IMO.
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