Insulation

[Bostonceltics151]

Hello all!

I’ve posted before about moving heat from a basement (heated with a Woodstock Progress Hybrid) up two floors to the bedrooms on the upper level. I’ve been considering cutting holes in the hard wood floors on the main level above the wood stove for vents, but I’m concerned that those holes will just become cold air returns back into the basement (basement stairs are definitely returns for cold air at this point..).

A friend of mine recommended removing all insulation in the basement ceiling (it’s completely exposed and easy to do at this point), creating essentially radiant heated floors throughout the main floor, allowing heat to rise to the floor above, and up to the third floor.

Looking to get thoughts on the idea of removing all the insulation in the basement, and how it effects the house when the wood stove isn’t running (will it force me to run my heating system throughout the house more when the stove isn’t on to heat the 2nd and 3rd floors), and whether or not removing the insulation will add enough heating for the floors above to forgo cutting vent holes.

Thanks in advance, appreciate the advice!

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is good advice. Removing the basement ceiling insulation will improve things by allowing more heat to get to the 1st floor. Getting the heat up to the second floor is a tougher problem Try a month with the basement insulation removed and see what you think. If then you decide to cut holes, they should have fusible link dampers and should be on the perimeter walls. Cold air will sink down from outside walls and more hot air will go up the basement stairs as long as the door is open as discussed in this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/moving-heat-to-second-level.172007

 

[Bostonceltics151]

Yes, that is good advice. Removing the basement ceiling insulation will improve things by allowing more heat to get to the 1st floor. Getting the heat up to the second floor is a tougher problem Try a month with the basement insulation removed and see what you think. If then you decide to cut holes, they should have fusible link dampers and should be on the perimeter walls. Cold air will sink down from outside walls and more hot air will go up the basement stairs as long as the door is open as discussed in this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/moving-heat-to-second-level.172007

Thanks for the info. Do you think removing the insulation will counteract the negative air flow I have going on now (cold air clearly falls down the basement stairs toward the stove in the basement)? Will creating more heat in the floors by removing the insulation create a more positive, upward flow, of hot air?

Also, will removing the insulation cause the floors to be too cold when the season changes and the stove is off?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the info. Do you think removing the insulation will counteract the negative air flow I have going on now (cold air clearly falls down the basement stairs toward the stove in the basement)? Will creating more heat in the floors by removing the insulation create a more positive, upward flow, of hot air?

Also, will removing the insulation cause the floors to be too cold when the season changes and the stove is off?

You will always have cold air moving down towards the stove somewhere. That is the only way you can get heat distributed through the house. Removing the insulation is a good idea because it is working against you. But it won't change the airflow

 

[begreen]

Do you think removing the insulation will counteract the negative air flow I have going on now (cold air clearly falls down the basement stairs toward the stove in the basement)? Will creating more heat in the floors by removing the insulation create a more positive, upward flow, of hot air?

As long as the stairwell is the only place where air can convect upstairs, the upper part of the top doorway will have hot air convecting upward to the first floor and the cooler air will be returning at the bottom of the door. Properly placed (and protected ) perimeter vents will allow the cool return air to take that path resulting in much less return air will return back down the stairwell.

 

[Bostonceltics151]

As long as the stairwell is the only place where air can convect upstairs, the upper part of the top doorway will have hot air convecting upward to the first floor and the cooler air will be returning at the bottom of the door. Properly placed (and protected ) perimeter vents will allow the cool return air to take that path resulting in much less return air will return back down the stairwell.

You say “properly placed vents”.. if my stove is located in the center of the house (next to the stair case), where do you recommend cutting both heat vents, and cold air return vents..?

 

[begreen]

This has already been covered. Please reread what has already been suggested and posted in this and the prior thread.

 

[Simonkenton]

In my house the second floor is timber framed. Big 8x8 timbers. Above that a floor, or a ceiling, it is both, of 1 1/2 inches of pine.
And above that 3/4 inch of finished pine. So a floor, or ceiling, of 2 1/4 inches of pine.

Very little heat goes through that floor. With the wood stove cranking downstairs, the floor upstairs doesn't even feel warm if you walk on it barefoot.

So, no, I would not bother removing the insulation. You have to have air movement to get that heat upstairs.

 

[Mech e]

If you have room, consider a forced air system. I have a register just above my stove that is connected to a simple squirrel cage blower. The blower pulls air from above the stove and distributes it to other rooms in the house using flexible ducting.

 

[begreen]

If you have room, consider a forced air system. I have a register just above my stove that is connected to a simple squirrel cage blower. The blower pulls air from above the stove and distributes it to other rooms in the house using flexible ducting.

A system like this is not code compliant unless the intake air grille is 10' away from the stove. This is possible in some cases with a high ceiling peak.

 

[Mech e]

A system like this is not code compliant unless the intake air grille is 10' away from the stove. This is possible in some cases with a high ceiling peak.

Can you provide a reference for that code?

 

[bholler]

Can you provide a reference for that code?

It is in irc chapter 10 and NFPA 211

 

[jetsam]

It is in irc chapter 10 and NFPA 211

I just browsed through that for kicks. NFPA 211 has rules for installing your residential incinerator, and your "low-heat solid fuel nonresidential appliance". That ought come in handy!

 

[bholler]

I just browsed through that for kicks. NFPA 211 has rules for installing your residential incinerator, and your "low-heat solid fuel nonresidential appliance". That ought come in handy!

If you are installing those things it would be useful.

 

[Mech e]

It is in irc chapter 10 and NFPA 211

I took a look at the California Residential Building Codes (chapter 10) and NFPA 211 and did not find anything. Do you have a more specific section in mind that I could look at? Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Mechanical code 601.5 covers this.

 

[Mech e]

Mechanical code 601.5 covers this.

View attachment 243911

Thanks for the reference begreen. This was installed on our home by previous owner. If I am interpreting the code correctly, this restriction would not apply if you had an external air supply duct installed on your stove.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the reference begreen. This was installed on our home by previous owner. If I am interpreting the code correctly, this restriction would not apply if you had an external air supply duct installed on your stove.

Having an external air supply makes no difference. Reread 601.5.1.