Installing Vintage Lange 6302A

[JohnMack]

My old 6302A stove came back to me after decades of absence. Have just about finished it's refinishing - sand blasted the exterior surface rust and reapplied cement on all joints. It's had one firing driveway since using a 5' x 6" galv snaplock shrunk to 5" as chimney. Works just fine and I plan to do another burn next dry day. I'm on the PNW coast so those aren't readily available/predictable features. Plan is to put this in the shop 2.2k ft pole barn with 6" FG ceiling insulation. We only see a few days of frost per year but can go weeks of damp 40-50° with the stove used to knock the edge off the damp mostly.

My question is about the chimney. This stove takes 5" pipe. I'm anticipating needing about 16' total height off stove to make the 2' min @10' clearance. I'd prefer to not go through the roof given our ~80" of precipitation but could be convinced.

There's a comfortable 8' above the stove, but that could be a bit more If I remove a bit of corrugated FG clerestory lite.

My concerns are cost - 5" seems to be a premium price compared to 6" and I'm not seeing 5x6" adapter but may not be looking in the right place(s). If I go side wall exit I'd need to be able to clear gutter which would be ~6" off the (metal) siding.

Is there functional advantage/penalty going 6" from stove to cap? Would that ease the problem of having two 90°'s? Is the placement height of the cleanout tee based on any more than access convenience? Is the double wall black acceptable all the way to the wall/ceiling pass through?

I'm almost wondering if parting with the Lange and going direct-vent pellet wouldn't be a better option. Advice and opinions welcome. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

It's ok to use the 6", it will be fine. For a price comparison try here:

Chimney Pipe / Venting Pipe :: Wood/All-Fuel Piping

woodstovepro.com

A properly installed, thru-the-roof installation will not leak any more with an 80" rainfall situation then it would with a 30" rainfall. Generally, it's less expensive to do this type of installation.

The stove is not very fussy about draft. It will work with a thru-the-wall flue system if that is the plan.

 

[peakbagger]

FYI. I pulled out my Jotul 606 manual the other day to check dimensions for a new installation. It is also a 5" outlet stove supplied with a 6" adaptor with a recomended 6" pipe to connect to the flue. Made sense until they discuss that the recommended flue size is 7" or a 6 by 6 square tile. The 606 has similar size firebox. In the Jotuls case a 6" circular flue would be smaller than their recommendation. So it may be worth doing a bit more research on your stove if a 6" round flue pipe is big enough.

 

[JohnMack]

It's ok to use the 6", it will be fine. For a price comparison try here:

Chimney Pipe / Venting Pipe :: Wood/All-Fuel Piping

woodstovepro.com

A properly installed, thru-the-roof installation will not leak any more with an 80" rainfall situation then it would with a 30" rainfall. Generally, it's less expensive to do this type of installation.

The stove is not very fussy about draft. It will work with a thru-the-wall flue system if that is the plan.

Thanks for the link, that's a big help. No one around here wants to do anything not 4-6-8 inches. I just hate cutting holes in roofs (that are mine) but the side wall jog may just be pricing itself out of viability.

ETA; I'm just attempting to get some input before I ask folks trying to sell me something.

 

[JohnMack]

FYI. I pulled out my Jotul 606 manual the other day to check dimensions for a new installation. It is also a 5" outlet stove supplied with a 6" adaptor with a recomended 6" pipe to connect to the flue. Made sense until they discuss that the recommended flue size is 7" or a 6 by 6 square tile. The 606 has similar size firebox. In the Jotuls case a 6" circular flue would be smaller than their recommendation. So it may be worth doing a bit more research on your stove if a 6" round flue pipe is big enough.

Attached is from the horses mouth, is it wrong to assume that 5" isn't the proper size to the cap? I only installed this once but that was '73 I believe and it was all done with single wall stovepipe, but that was long ago. Not sure what the two other users had done and they passed so it's back to me now.

 

[begreen]

5" is more common in Europe. It will work fine on 6". The advantage of going with that size flue system is that if you later want to change out the stove, 6" is the most common size for modern stoves.

 

[Defiant 3]

Yeah so I believe it's actually 125mm, not 5". Woodmans Parts Plus has 125 to 6" adapters.

 

[JohnMack]

Yeah so I believe it's actually 125mm, not 5". Woodmans Parts Plus has 125 to 6" adapters.

I'm 99.999% certain this has a Lange supplied 5" adapter already installed, but will double check again in the morning. Thanks.

 

[JohnMack]

5" is more common in Europe. It will work fine on 6". The advantage of going with that size flue system is that if you later want to change out the stove, 6" is the most common size for modern stoves.

That's another thing I was wondering about. So far none of my local folks wanted to bother looking for the 5x6 transition. Going through the roof will require one of the rubber flashing boots - any issues with those to be aware of / ones to avoid?

 

[begreen]

That's another thing I was wondering about. So far none of my local folks wanted to bother looking for the 5x6 transition. Going through the roof will require one of the rubber flashing boots - any issues with those to be aware of / ones to avoid?

If you want it to be long-term hassle and leak-free, avoid them all. For a metal roof, use a proper metal roof flashing from Excel or Ventis. It gets notched for the ribs or seams.

 

[JohnMack]

If you want it to be long-term hassle and leak-free, avoid them all. For a metal roof, use a proper metal roof flashing from Excel or Ventis. It gets notched for the ribs or seams.
View attachment 309478

Awesome, thanks. Neat, clean and not lumpy looking.

 

[bholler]

That's another thing I was wondering about. So far none of my local folks wanted to bother looking for the 5x6 transition. Going through the roof will require one of the rubber flashing boots - any issues with those to be aware of / ones to avoid?

Our local hardware stores carry 5 to 6 adapters and they are definitely available online but as others have said it's probably not actually 5"

And don't do the rubber boot just do it right with metal and be done with it

 

[begreen]

Awesome, thanks. Neat, clean and not lumpy looking.

Yes, and far fewer screw holes in the roof.

 

[JohnMack]

Our local hardware stores carry 5 to 6 adapters and they are definitely available online but as others have said it's probably not actually 5"

And don't do the rubber boot just do it right with metal and be done with it

Measured again with 2 different calipers and get 126mm to 127mm, it is visibly tapered. Probably 125.5 at the top the 126 is about 3/8" down. Thanks for reinforcing the no rubber boot though.

 

[JohnMack]

Back to this install. Stove is in, it's in a mostly uninsulated pole barn.

Today I had a bad draft day. Cold started this morning with good dry kindling (beech, oak, fir, alder) and hand plane wood shavings and some med splits of alder and fir (bottom up). This has only had about 10 fires in it since installed and other than a stuck wind directional cap once has performed well. Today however a good draft never seemed to take hold - smoke came out of door when open, and from two of the stove pipe joints, as well as out the top of the chimney. Cap was oriented with wind/smoke direction.

Chimney is: 5" stove outlet adapted up to 6", just shy of 10' of 6" (2-3' and a telescopic) single wall pipe to the ceiling box and 6' of 6" class A from there. It penetrates roof about 3' inside low side (gutter) of an approx 3:12 metal roof and is comfortably over the 3-2-10 requirement, but not excessive; around level with the ridge. Today was the coldest day it's been used, maybe 40° and dew point a hair below that with occasional sprinkles - Oregon coast. Wind was from the east 5- 10mph.

About 30-40' to the east is a wall of trees a good bit higher, and goes downhill rapidly towards bay 170' lower. It is open for at least 100' in all other directions.

The day I did the test burn was one of the unexpected days where the temp shot up to mid 70's, off a wind from similar direction, and it drafted well. I did have the OH door up that day, otherwise the only difference is temp and humidity. Opening the small (people) door appeared to make no significant difference.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated?

 

[begreen]

I'm wondering if this was a small puffback. Was the fire smoldering right before this happened?

 

[JohnMack]

No, not a puff back. From the outside it looked 'good' but those joints were puffing like, well a chimney, and continued to do so as I varied intake air and opened doors giving a bit of dwell time to each to see if it had any effects, all the while the wind was calming some especially below tree top level.

The day the wind cap was stuck it was facing into the the wind and gave similar output on the inside that stopped after I gave the cap a poke with a 12' pole to swing it back around. I would have thought the bit cooler air would have helped with the draft if anything, but the opposite seemed to happen.

Would it seem possible for some wind to get under the back of the wind cap and disturb the Venturi effect?

 

[begreen]

Maybe the gusts were squirrely, switching direction rapidly and the wind cap is sticky and slow to react? Did the wind cap axle get cleaned and lubricated?

 

[JohnMack]

Thanks. Yes, after that first event about 6 fires ago, it was cleaned and lubed, not that it was that dirty. Today it was working fine, and the smoke on the interior kept coming. Wind was light and variable, not gusty. It was like a siphon situation sorta.

 

[begreen]

Have to ask some basic questions.
Is the stove pipe installed so that the crimped (male) end points down, toward the stove?
Is the house particularly well sealed so that a bath fan, clothes dryer, kitchen fan caused negative pressure in the room?

 

[JohnMack]

Yes, pipe is directional correct. This is a metal sided/roofed pole barn shop, 2k sqft, with insulated ceiling, and while it doesn't leak water it's not that tight, but as I said I did try leaving the man door open today to see if that altered the drafting any and it didn't appear to. I had earlier messed around with leaving the door ajar wondering if I should put in a combustion air intake through the wall behind the stove and open 6 - 8" and saw no noticeable change either way.

When we get a dry enough day, I'll climb up and pull the cap off and inspect from that end. I sure that day comes in next month or so.

 

[JohnMack]

Okay, problem solved. Yesterday a break in the weather afforded the chance to pull the weather cap off and inspect. The partial culprit was a horizontal bird block screen installed just below the top of the pipe. It was sooted up pretty good 40 -60% maybe, hard to tell as some came off on the way down the ladder.

Another issue may have been my yard helper may've stacked the pallets of wood backwards putting the greener in front of the dry. It's all mixed mostly hem and spruce and was mixed with well seasoned alder and Doug. My meter, courtesy of Travis has failed considering a 9.6v, 9v battery 'low' and I wasn't sure of my DMM ohm test results.

The chimney pipe had a little build up but didn't look bad enough to clean. Another issue could be I was burning too slow for the woods I'm using. All my past uses of this stove was with it being fed Appalachian hardwoods so that muscle memory may be choking it down too much. Hopefully we get another break in weather next weekend so I can go back up and inspect after some additional use.

First burn after screen removal and cap cleaning went as expected. Thanks for your input.