installing manual damper above pacific energy summit

[simplynatural]

Last year just after Christmas we had a wood fire that took out part of our house. We have burned wood for decades and never had a chimney fire before, but were in a new house, had a massive storm with 80 mph winds and the tall chimney (inspected just 4 months before when we bought the place and no issues came up) tore off house in a storm and somehow started roof on fire. When we woke up to fire in house (the alarms not going off when they'd gone off the day before when we burned toast. . . ) the roof was raging on fire and the stove inside no longer had top of chimney attached, just 3 feet of double insulated stovepipe which had a roaring red fire coming out top of it.
After 45 minutes we managed to put the fire out via a boatload of miracles (took fire department that long to get here) and are now contemplating wood stove again because it is ridiculous to live in -40F winters without wood stove!

The stove we had been using was an Englander from Home depot - we had used it for several years in another home before moving. I had mentioned to my husband I was not happy how the damper couldn't shut the stove down since we moved and he was sure it was all in my head. I'm really anal about safety with wood stoves, proper clearances, insulated shields etc, so I know it wasn't running like normal, but I don't know if that had anything to do with fire.

After the fire he said he wants an exterior damper to be able shut down a fire if this was to happen again. There was a 20 foot exterior flimsy chimney that broke apart from house and we inspected later and found to be pretty much a huge tinder box made out of 2x'4's and wooden shakes, but very recently lined with flexible chimney that was supposedly rated for wood burning - it had completely melted in the fire so not a lot left to check. Because of the fire coming out of top of the stove, and damper turned all the way off but not shutting fire down at all, he believes if we'd had an external damper we could have at least controlled the fire coming out the top of the stove. But at that point we had 20 feet of chimney fallen on top of the house, house roof on fire where chimney had fallen and big hole in side of house, so I really don't think a damper on the stove would have done anything except reduce stress of having flames in house (they didn't do anything in the house, but caused stress to see)

The new installation will have a very short run straight up as it is in a different location with a short roof so it is nothing similar. We are not going to use the old stove as I have no idea what was compromised during that huge overfire situation, but will use our pacific energy summit we have had for a few years also (our last house was large enough to require two wood stoves in our zone 3 climate).

The question i have after all this background (to explain our maybe excessive stress over safety with wood stoves) is that I remember reading somewhere that pacific energy is NOT to install an exterior damper due to it lowering temp and combustion issues that would allow for excessive creosote. But I am not sure where I read it!
My husband disagrees and says install an exterior damper to shut the stove down if we ever have a fire and that it won't have that much impact. I obviously want to be very very safe (I had months of sleepness nights and nightmares and stress after the fire so do not want to repeat that!) but i understand my husbands thought that an exterior damper is a safety he would like if the damper ever fails on this stove.

Any thoughts? I've contacted the company and am just throwing this out there for discussion. thank you in advance!

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the cause of fire was not the stove, but rather that the stove was venting into the attic. Is that correct? A damper is not necessary in this situation. With a short chimney draft regulation should not be an issue at all. And as long as it is properly installed it should stand up to high winds at least as well as the roof itself. If the new chimney extends more than 5 ft out of the roof it will need a properly installed brace.

A key damper in the stove pipe will not cut off 100% of the flue, but it might help slow down a fire in an emergency. It will make cleaning the flue a bit more awkward and if the flue system is <20' that damper probably should not be used to regulate the stove. The two things to invest in are a totally proper installation of the stove and flue system and burning only dry wood.

 

[simplynatural]

We have no attic - it is an open a frame so there was a short run in house then it was 20 feet of chimney outside the a frame - and it was NOT properly braced and there was easily 15 feet with no braces (I had mentioned my concern about this the fall before burning, and inspector said it passed - my husband and I should have gone with our guts and braced etc . . . )

We don't mind the hassle of taking things apart to clean as we do that anyway. The place we are installing stove is the living room addition that has regular roof - I think the run from stove to top will be maybe 14 feet give or take a foot. It will not extend more than 5 feet out of roof as it is a mild sloping roof.

I think it was one of those perfect storm situations that we have never seen because we never run a chimney up through 20+ feet exterior unbraced dinky wooden chimney , combine massive storm and maybe a chimney fire and you have serious issues.

I guess maybe my biggest wonder is if it will have that huge an impact - I would not touch it except in chimney fire situation. if it would give my husband peace of mind without detriment I would install it without a heartbeat, but if it is dangerous. . . I'll see what pacific energy has to say!

 

[begreen]

Yes, that was a disaster waiting to happen. With a properly installed setup you shouldn't ever see a repeat performance.

You'll find the Summit, with the setup described, to be very easy to clean without the key damper. There will be no need to detach the stovepipe from the stove, just drop the baffle, put a rag in the secondary tube and sweep. With a sooteater you can clean bottom-up and never get on the roof. I think as long as you burn dry wood you will find this to be a completely different experience. We get about 1/2 of soot when cleaning once a year after burning about 2.5-3 cords of wood. I would not install a damper in the stove pipe for the system as described.

 

[simplynatural]

We are anal cleaners and in our pacific energy we never have creosote - there is no build up anywhere and it burns fantastically. It has given us some stress to not have wood stove backup in this climate - we experienced several power outages last year and then fluke furnace dying and when it is that cold house drops temp ridiculously fast. and heating with electric in rural area adds up mighty fast!

Thank you so much for your tips on cleaning etc .

 

[begreen]

I hear you. Power outages are one reason we have the T6, but we love the warmth and nice fire view too.

 

[Mountain Man]

I have owned 2 Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 wood stoves over the course of 11 years in this house. The first one lasted me about 6 years before it started having welds crack internally. It often would scare me how hot the stove would get with everything closed tight and early. After years of being told these stoves do not need a damper in the outlet, I did some research and decided to add one since the stove pipe was apart to install the replacement stove. Worst case I would never actually close it and have it in case of a chimney fire. Long story short, I use it daily and it has dramatically reduced the amount of wood I use in a burning season, and I am now able to keep stoves temps in check. I will add that I have a total length of 28' of double insulated stove pipe which causes an excessive amount of uncontrollable draft, and both stoves i modified the air inlet to allow tighter inlet air control. The newer stove model has an updated EBT that only feeds the secondary air which also helps in hot stove situations.

My opinion is that these stoves were designed to pass EPA emissions testing, and not necessarily designed for user friendly (common sense) control of the stove. With these modifications I now have that control and the stove works amazingly well.

Experts feel free to comment.

~MM

 

[begreen]

I will add that I have a total length of 28' of double insulated stove pipe which causes an excessive amount of uncontrollable draft,

That is the specific difference between this case and the OP's situation. In the case of a tall flue and strong draft a key damper is definitely warranted.

 

[Highbeam]

I had an unnecessary and unused key damper in my flue for a few years. No, it doesn't hurt anything except making cleaning a little more difficult. It's not expensive to add or remove the key damper.

I don't think you need one but I would install one in your position. Might decide you like it. Those high winds in ND, cold temperatures, and if you have the modern LE version of the stove could make a damper a good idea.

 

[begreen]

I tried one on our T6 for a season with our 20' flue. It didn't help burning. I found that on coldest days that restricting the air intake slightly more was more effective in regulating the fire. After testing I bent the stop slightly to make the change semi-permanent. Normally now we never take the air to the stop, but just slightly open to where the factory stop used to be. It is only a few times a year that I take the air all the way to the new stop location and that still admits some air.

 

[simplynatural]

Thank you all for your replies. I think we'll monitor temps before installing damper. Last house we had similar chimney height and it worked well!