How to get around dealing with Pellet stove or other dealers?

[Val]

I own Harman brand stoves, a 2006 Accentra and an older P38. I notice that most people think that the dealers are either far away, or hard to deal with....The "Harman" company is hard to deal with.....My experience with the local stove dealer was that he was a nice man, but after the $$$ because doing business in New York was just getting harder and harder. Plus, he gets sick of people and time wasters. I could get help from him a little, but only so much because he would turn and run away. he ran the store by himself with some help from extended family. Also, he doesnt answer his phone. And he even changed his business hours a lot to give himself free time as he was approaching retirement. But he was a good/ fair guy to deal with when buying a stove as he worked with me financially at the time...I put the stove on a layaway of sorts and paid it off a short time later. But he is retiring, I believe. Now I got to "go it alone". The nearest dealers will be 50 miles away. (he was 20 miles/ 30 minutes away). I honestly believe we now live in a "disposable product" society where the idea of a reputable dealer is long gone. This is true of lawnmowers, cars, vacuum cleaners...etc. I worry about dealing with these other dealers. I dont do service calls, cant afford it and they wont travel very far anyway. Is it just my experience or do a lot of these dealers "act funny" now. Maybe because being a business owner is too much stress nowadays, dealing with the stove company is too strict or their family members dont want anything to do with the business. I see a lot of these stove dealers trying to get the $$$ out of the customer for service. Accessories in the store are so overpriced that I ask myself "do these guys have a computer? Dont they ever look online?" I now see stove dealers trying to sell used parts (not as much used stoves cause they want to sell new) or cheaper lines of stoves to go along with the expensive ones. It is strange that I just have become afraid of the stove dealer. I like Harman stoves, or a better quality stove, but think I just want to buy it-have them dump the crate on the S-10 and drive away. I literally dont want to deal with a dealer anymore. I found a Harman dealer in a recrational outfit that also sells pools, pool tables, grills.... Nice and impersonal...Any thoughts on this? I wish you stove guys would write an in-depth sevice booklet on Harman (or other brands) and sell it on Ebay. You can do digital photos, have your wives do the typing. Make it about 50 pages and brand specific. I think you could make the money for your time involved. Sell them for $25 or so each. I would be interested in one.

 

[webbie]

You could try an email exchange with a generic Pellet Service Guy like our exalted member
https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/smwilliamson.13019/

He may be able to do phone consultation for a charge......

 

[Delta-T]

reputable dealers are not "long gone", but if people keep demanding that we "price ourselves out" by trying to match an "online entity" that maintains no vehicles, service people, specified training, or retail location...we soon will be. be careful what you wish for. it has taken time, energy, and $$ for me and others who sell and service, to accumulate the knowledge base that we have and that really is worth something. I'm perfectly happy to give that knowledge away, which I do, right here, and I ask for nothing in return, but to have the recipients of this knowledge to take a moment to reflect on the notion that I am a person, making a living, like most everyone else, and that if everyone knew, and could do, what I do, then you wouldn't need a place like Hearth.com, and I wouldn't need to share. I understand that there ARE "not so great dealers" out there, and that is a shame, but there are some real "top notch" dealers out there as well...like webbie likes to say..."let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater". Even if I wanted to I couldn't put together a Haman service manual that was 50 pages....maybe 8.

 

[Lousyweather]

*DISCLAIMER* I sell stoves! !!

I feel the marketplace as a whole has changed. Now its isnt just the stove dealers, but the customers as well. used to be, the "mom and pops" proliferated everywhere, in neighborhoods, towns, and cities. You dealt with a butcher, baker, milkman, etc. They were personal folks, you generally knew them, their families, and they knew yours. But, in the last generation or so, something has happened. The public, thats YOU, dear reader, have voted with their checkbook, basically saying you dont want that kind of relationship, and prefer the cold, impersonal, big boxes, online stores, and supermarkets. Im sure there are many reasons for this, be it breadth of inventory, pricing, convenience of one-stop shopping, and many more reasons, Im sure. But, by not supporting the local folks, you created a marketplace where the local people cannot survive. How can a brick-and-mortar store, dealing with local taxes, costs, having to deliver, actually STOCK inventory (rather than have it drop shipped), having to maybe educate folks, etc, compete in such a world? No good stove dealers? Sure, they exist. But that "mom and pop" ideal, that everyone seems to miss so much, is gone because, in the largest part, because of YOU, the consumer. You will sell out the local guy for a few pennies. Its your fault. Its not a local thing...its everywhere.....cant have your cake and eat it too.

Now, as for service, and the EVIL stove dealer who foolishly charges for service (Imagine, the dealer actually wants to MAKE money to put food on his table?! The nerve!). There are many dealers who offer, well, sub-standard service. They will end up weeding themselves out......dont support them! Maybe they are the cheapest, but, if their service stinks, dont do business there.

I get confused and annoyed when I read here that folks sprain their arms patting themselves on the back with the big "score" they just made on their latest pellet or stove buy miles away, but then complain about how you cant get good service locally. Well, folks, quality service costs MONEY. Money you have to make by selling stuff at a margin high enough for your business to survive. This money is made by charging for products you sell, for accessories, and for intellectual property, such as service knowledge. Should we come out to your place for free, spend a couple hours troubleshooting a stove you bought somewhere else, fix it, and then just go with and handshake and a smile from you, with you promising to buy the next ton of pellets from us? Lemme tell ya, that couple hours spent educating you cost us a whole lot more than we make with those pellets.

A Harman service manual? Hm....spend time and effort making something that someone will likely just copy and give to all their friends? Doesnt make sense to me.

 

[n3pro]

Sort of off topic as far as stoves go but a friend of mine works for a custom cabinetry shop. Similar situation. Started in the 70's as a mom and pop place and built a great reputation for quality and service. Then the big box stores came in with their pressed cardboard Chinese cabinets that are pennies on the dollar compared to them and boom there went business to a large extent. They are down to four people. He was talking this weekend that they bid on a project 82 miles away at a beach house of a guy who has three exotic cars, large boat and three houses. The pictures were amazing but anyway they bid on the project, one of four companies. They got chosen then when it came to signing the contract the guy wanted 10,000 off and appliances for free. The owner negotiated 5,000 off but he explained to the guy the overhead plus the travel and expenses involved and said there is no way he can go any lower. He said if it was for him and not the employees he would have just walked out. The guys body language was snarky. He says there has been more and more jobs like that. He's trying to get enough work to stay in business and keep the skeleton crew he has employed but more and more the numbers just don't add up.

My point is it's not just stoves, it is the market sadly as Lousyweather said people spoke with their wallets and now us as consumers are paying for the cheaper price with no personal service. Often I'm just as guilty.

 

[MCPO]

Sort of off topic as far as stoves go but a friend of mine works for a custom cabinetry shop. Similar situation. Started in the 70's as a mom and pop place and built a great reputation for quality and service. Then the big box stores came in with their pressed cardboard Chinese cabinets that are pennies on the dollar compared to them and boom there went business to a large extent. They are down to four people. He was talking this weekend that they bid on a project 82 miles away at a beach house of a guy who has three exotic cars, large boat and three houses. The pictures were amazing but anyway they bid on the project, one of four companies. They got chosen then when it came to signing the contract the guy wanted 10,000 off and appliances for free. The owner negotiated 5,000 off but he explained to the guy the overhead plus the travel and expenses involved and said there is no way he can go any lower. He said if it was for him and not the employees he would have just walked out. The guys body language was snarky. He says there has been more and more jobs like that. He's trying to get enough work to stay in business and keep the skeleton crew he has employed but more and more the numbers just don't add up.

My point is it's not just stoves, it is the market sadly as Lousyweather said people spoke with their wallets and now us as consumers are paying for the cheaper price with no personal service. Often I'm just as guilty.

The way to get around a questionable Harman dealer is to buy a used one. Learn to repair it yourself. It`s not rocket science.

 

[Lousyweather]

it isnt just stoves, n3pro, its pretty much everything really. I do have a hard time trying to figure out what Val wants, as she laments the fact that she has to "go it alone", then a few sentences later states that she "literally does not want to deal with a dealer anymore", so theres a few things that confuse me there. The economy is such these days that the consumer finds that he or she has to pinch pennies to make ends meet. Gone are the days when the man was the breadwinner and the women could stay home and be the homemaker...she has to work now too, just as hard as her husband or significant other! As hard as it is for the consumer, its just as hard, if not more so, than the brick and stone retailer. We have higher costs, more regulation than EVER before, and get hammered by folks we dont know, who we have never seen (and likely wont ever again), who want a "deal" or something for free. As the market has changed to a more of an "immediate gratification" society, I think the consumer is going to have to understand that if you want services, true service, then that has a cost involved, and they will need to pay for it. Helping folks out is all good, advice-wise, or even opinion-wise, but at some point, the rubber needs to hit the road and the meter needs to start running. Hate to say it, but if you want that out-of-warrantee unit serviced, cleaned, reinstalled, or fixed, you should likely be ready to pay for it. I would suggest though that you ask for pricing FIRST, thereby avoiding the possible difficulties of not liking the price after the work is done.....if that particular outfit is too much money, shop around, maybe someone else is cheaper. There are even many folks around who are independant, like Scott W. who make a living servicing stoves. Dont expect them to head to your place and work for free though.

 

[Lousyweather]

The way to get around a questionable Harman dealer is to buy a used one. Learn to repair it yourself. It`s not rocket science.

Couldnt agree more, Master Chief! Anything is fixable. Heck, maybe it needs no parts and just a good cleaning. Even if it needs parts, still cheaper than buying a new stove. Used stoves generally arent warranteed anyhow, and most dealers I know of are happy to sell you parts.