House Air Ducts Question for Building Code Type

[Whitenuckler]

If have been following some of my posts, you know I have to run my stove at the lowest BTU input possible right now (if I want to run 24/7)
I have been considering adding a duct of some sort from above the stove to my livingroom above and adding a duct blower. Is this not allowed by code due to fire spread? I don't care if it is against code in US or CA, or any town/city. Any violation would be enough for me due to insurance. Thanks

 

[tbear853]

Don't know your codes, but just a duct with fan standing out in the basement floor not attached to a wood or pellet stove, with upper end exiting up stairs where it's just providing circulation of warmed air is fine here. No different than setting a fan out in front of the stove or up on top of the stove to direct warmed air down a hall way towards the bed rooms or our ceiling fan drawing air up towards the loft and our bedroom from the living room below.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Don't know your codes, but just a duct with fan standing out in the basement floor not attached to a wood or pellet stove, with upper end exiting up stairs where it's just providing circulation of warmed air is fine here. No different than setting a fan out in front of the stove or up on top of the stove to direct warmed air down a hall way towards the bed rooms or our ceiling fan drawing air up towards the loft and our bedroom from the living room below.

Ya, I'm not sure if I can cut a hole in my floor and couple the basement to the upstairs. I have had many houses with furnaces in the basement and metal ductwork to each room plus cold air return. That was all metal and enclosed at the furnace end. I did what Iam talking about once at a house but I always wonder if I did something I shouldn't have

 

[tbear853]

My father in law had a beast of a wood stove he built in his basement, he liked few fill ups, it swallowed big wood .... but he built it with a "jacket" and two squirrel fans to move air across the exterior of the actual fire box and into a duct that he had a flapper on to isolate it, and it distributed heated air through the house duct system. Was in the 1970s, he built the house in '73. In the '80s we built a free standing wood stove, but it just blew air out into the room, for our house, when I learned welding, I still have that stove in storage but when I built my house in the early '90s, my building inspector told me not to connect my wood stove to my house ducting. So I bought the pellet stove that is in my living room on a hearth.

 

[Whitenuckler]

My father in law had a beast of a wood stove he built in his basement, he liked few fill ups, it swallowed big wood .... but he built it with a "jacket" and two squirrel fans to move air across the exterior of the actual fire box and into a duct that he had a flapper on to isolate it, and it distributed heated air through the house duct system. Was in the 1970s, he built the house in '73. In the '80s we built a free standing wood stove, but it just blew air out into the room, for our house, when I learned welding, I still have that stove in storage but when I built my house in the early '90s, my building inspector told me not to connect my wood stove to my house ducting. So I bought the pellet stove that is in my living room on a hearth.

This house was built in the 70's, and everyone here had oil boilers that provided hot water for long white rads in each room plus domestic hw. Great heating system but no AC. They also had an open fireplace in the livingroom. Now by the time I bought it a year ago the oil system was decommissioned and in it's place heat pumps and electric hot water, plus electric heaters in bedrooms ect. The heatpump for the basement was/is useless in the cold. Went down to 15C all the time. I had to watch TV with a heater in front of me. Now it's 22C all the time. Could never use the upstairs fireplace because had no WETT certificate, so I stuck a cheap electric fireplace in there. I really miss the houses I had with nat gas ducted furnace and outside padmount AC with the evap coil in the duct.

 

[stoveliker]

There are fire dampers. If you cut a hole with a e.g. 6" inline fan, put a fire damper in. They have a fusible link that holds a spring loaded valve open. It gets hot (140 F I believe) the link melts and the thing shuts.

In some places that is code when making a hole in a floor (even wood floors are fire barriers because they delay the spread).

 

[Whitenuckler]

There are fire dampers. If you cut a hole with a e.g. 6" inline fan, put a fire damper in. They have a fusible link that holds a spring loaded valve open. It gets hot (140 F I believe) the link melts and the thing shuts.

In some places that is code when making a hole in a floor (even wood floors are fire barriers because they delay the spread).

Volet coupe-feu rond type CR

Le volet coupe-feu type CRV est fabriqué en acier galvanisé. Installé dans les systèmes de ventilation il offre une résistance au feu 1 1/2 heures. Ce volet coupe-feu mural utilise un mécanisme de fermeture par gravité. Le fusible est à 165°F. **Manchon et équerre par le client**

www.disconst.com

Now I am wondering if in the summer it would be good for blowing basement air up into my main floor bedroom which is at the end of a hall. Air direction would be the same. I like your idea as I would feel comfortable if ever questioned about it and with a variable speed fan I could control it.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, I have one like that. Different brand.

This is my set up to move heat from the basement.

Post in thread 'Moving heat from basement'

May 1, 2023

I heat from the basement, and if I include my basement squre footage, I have 2500 sqft.
825 in the basement and 1700 above that. Late 70s. Brand new triple pane windows, fantastic sealing and insulation (R57) in the attic. Mediocre wall insulation.

My basement walls are insulated, but the floor is unfortunately not.

Heating my home above the basement is easy. Only when it gets to be 5 F do I have to push the stove (as in 8 hr reloads), still keeping my main floor around 70 F.

However, I second the comment above that heating from a basement benefits from consistency, i.e. you heat...

• stoveliker

• 

I create a circuit. Pumping cold air down and thus pushing warm air up the stairs.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Yes, I have one like that. Different brand.

This is my set up to move heat from the basement.

Post in thread 'Moving heat from basement'

May 1, 2023

I heat from the basement, and if I include my basement squre footage, I have 2500 sqft.
825 in the basement and 1700 above that. Late 70s. Brand new triple pane windows, fantastic sealing and insulation (R57) in the attic. Mediocre wall insulation.

My basement walls are insulated, but the floor is unfortunately not.

Heating my home above the basement is easy. Only when it gets to be 5 F do I have to push the stove (as in 8 hr reloads), still keeping my main floor around 70 F.

However, I second the comment above that heating from a basement benefits from consistency, i.e. you heat...

• stoveliker

• 

I create a circuit. Pumping cold air down and thus pushing warm air up the stairs.

Someone else told me it was better to move the cold air also. That fire damper and a fan could be designed so that I could change direction for summer if I pump cold bedroom air down above the stove in winter. Problem for me would be how to make it look good as always

 

[Whitenuckler]

There are fire dampers. If you cut a hole with a e.g. 6" inline fan, put a fire damper in. They have a fusible link that holds a spring loaded valve open. It gets hot (140 F I believe) the link melts and the thing shuts.

In some places that is code when making a hole in a floor (even wood floors are fire barriers because they delay the spread).

Air King Advantage Fire Rated 50 CFM Ceiling Bathroom Exhaust Fan FRAS50 - The Home Depot

Visit The Home Depot to buy Air King 50 CFM Advantage Fire Rated Exhaust Fan FRAS50

www.homedepot.com

What do you think about these fire rated bathroom fans? Would look good I think if mounted into the basement ceiling and run the output along up to my bedroom floor with a 90and have a floor vent cover ect.

 

[stoveliker]

I don't know them I bought an inline fan.
This is how I finished it in the living room.
Bare wood orange store. Stained to more or less match the floor.

The air down in the basement is ducted down at the wall (so it runs between the joists to the side first) and I built a chase, and it has a white register like this one near the floor blowing out.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I don't know them I bought an inline fan.
This is how I finished it in the living room.
Bare wood orange store. Stained to more or less match the floor.

The air down in the basement is ducted down at the wall (so it runs between the joists to the side first) and I built a chase, and it has a white register like this one near the floor blowing out.

I'd say you are pretty handy and that looks great. I guess the inline fan is downstairs in the wall? I actually have paneling downstairs but wallnext to the stove was built under joist supports so I can't come down the wall from the joist cavity. Is that what you mean buy a chase going from the joist cavity into a bulkhead and then back in a wall? Oh sorry let me read your post first. I forgot you had given me the link

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, register, boot to 6" metal pipe that runs between the joists to the wall in the basement, metal elbow down, chase starts, fire damper, then flexible duct down. At the bottom I mounted the fan on a wooden frame that is mounted on the concrete slab - not the studs - as this minimizes fan vibrations from transmitting up to the joists of the living room floor. Then another boot and register.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Yes, register, boot to 6" metal pipe that runs between the joists to the wall in the basement, metal elbow down, chase starts, fire damper, then flexible duct down. At the bottom I mounted the fan on a wooden frame that is mounted on the concrete slab - not the studs - as this minimizes fan vibrations from transmitting up to the joists of the living room floor. Then another boot and register.

Ok thanks. I had to look up what a chase was...it appears to be a box that encloses a chimney, or in your case vent pipe and fan. I think I can do it without building a chase. What is great is that behind the stove is where the old furnace room is/was. That wall is open and ceiling unfinished on the furnace room side. My floor joists run the correct way to have a register in my 1st floor bedroom and run past the stove wall and enter the furnace room. Now my question is, I have the option (besides possible cross bracing) to have the register in the bedroom on the far wall or anywhere in between to probably directly overhead of the stove. If I plan on pumping cold air down to the foot of the stove, I guess I might as well have it located at the end of the bedroom right above the stove? Do you think in the summer time I could reverse the fan/blower and blow cool air up to my bedroom? I will have to look for a rectangular fire damper for a standard register. This is actually looking fairly straightforward in my case

 

[stoveliker]

I think you can, if you buy the right fan.
However I wouldn't.
If the basement is cool in the summer, and the rest of the house is warm, the air in the rest of the house will contain a lot more moisture. Moving basement air to upstairs means moving upstairs air to the basement (you're not pulling a vacuum in the basement). So you'll be increasing the humidity in the basement and potentially even creating issues.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I think you can, if you buy the right fan.
However I wouldn't.
If the basement is cool in the summer, and the rest of the house is warm, the air in the rest of the house will contain a lot more moisture. Moving basement air to upstairs means moving upstairs air to the basement (you're not pulling a vacuum in the basement). So you'll be increasing the humidity in the basement and potentially even creating issues.

I do have heat pumps for the 1st floor and basement. The heat pump head on the first floor is in the living room, and I have a big fan to blow the air into the other end of the house. It controls the humidity OK. I have major problems getting any AC air to the bedrooms though.

I tried using the heat pump in the basement last summer (a VERY hot summer)to dehumidify but it didn't work. The basement was already cool. I tried the dehumidify mode too. Now I have a dehumidifier, so I hope that is all I need to run down there this summer. If I can get some dryer cool air maybe it would be OK to pump it up and get some circulation? Last summer I had a fan in the bedroom hallway and a few small fans directing air to the big hallway fan. I'm probably going to have to put a window AC in my bedroom anyway. Need to replace the old wood window first.

 

[stoveliker]

If you have a dehumidifier there, and it's able to keep things at 50% or so, I'd be okay doing it in my house.
The dehumidifier will heat up the basement though, significantly.

 

[Whitenuckler]

If you have a dehumidifier there, and it's able to keep things at 50% or so, I'd be okay doing it in my house.
The dehumidifier will heat up the basement though, significantly.

Well the dehumdifier set up won't be perfect as it is located right now in my laundry room, and I have it draining into the sump pump hole. That room has no insulation and stays cool anyway. I can keep the door wide open, but not sure what the air circulation will be to the main basement area. The previous owners had one there. I could have a fan blowing air out of the laundry room, but the stairs are right outside the door. If I get another dehumidifier for the main room, then I have drainage issues, and I don't plan on emptying the tank manually.
Even if a summer mode does not work, the winter one will (because you are doing it!) You have been very helpful and this is why I joined the Hearth.com. I have done a ton of research on this site even before I joined. I knew more about my pellet stove operation than my installer.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Well the dehumdifier set up won't be perfect as it is located right now in my laundry room, and I have it draining into the sump pump hole. That room has no insulation and stays cool anyway. I can keep the door wide open, but not sure what the air circulation will be to the main basement area. The previous owners had one there. I could have a fan blowing air out of the laundry room, but the stairs are right outside the door. If I get another dehumidifier for the main room, then I have drainage issues, and I don't plan on emptying the tank manually.
Even if a summer mode does not work, the winter one will (because you are doing it!) You have been very helpful and this is why I joined the Hearth.com. I have done a ton of research on this site even before I joined. I knew more about my pellet stove operation than my installer.

https://www.briskmfg.com/images/product/75C-CR-CO.pdf

 

[Ssyko]

Check with you code officer before you install and cut holes in the floor. I know CA is much diff than US

 

[Whitenuckler]

Check with you code officer before you install and cut holes in the floor. I know CA is much diff than US

Just got off the phone and was talking to an inspector. For a single family home (PEI) (excluding garage) there are no firestops, and so I can cut a hole in the floor. Someone did say this, ie same as having a fan blowing air around stairwells ect. He knew exactly what a Fire Damper was.

 

[Ssyko]

Thats cool, i like the way it is designed.

 

[stoveliker]

Just got off the phone and was talking to an inspector. For a single family home (PEI) (excluding garage) there are no firestops, and so I can cut a hole in the floor. Someone did say this, ie same as having a fan blowing air around stairwells ect. He knew exactly what a Fire Damper was.

I hope he's right. A wooden floor is not a firestop. It burns through. But it is slow in doing so, it is a barrier. Delaying spreading.
Especially if it is a second hole (with stairs being the first), as that can create convection loops accelerating a spread or smoke (toxic) and fire

I would put a fire damper in; it's $50 or so and gives good peace of mind.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I hope he's right. A wooden floor is not a firestop. It burns through. But it is slow in doing so, it is a barrier. Delaying spreading.
Especially if it is a second hole (with stairs being the first), as that can create convection loops accelerating a spread or smoke (toxic) and fire

I would put a fire damper in; it's $50 or so and gives good peace of mind.

Making progress. Hardest part done. Did not start any fires and only 3 small bleeding cuts. Hardest part was cutting through nails.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Making progress. Hardest part done. Did not start any fires and only 3 small bleeding cuts. Hardest part was cutting through nails.

OK - It's up and running. Strong suction and blowing. Too noisy at the suction end (bedroom) but I guess it's white noise. I already have the blower hanging by a bungee cord as the vibration was going through the wall (expected). I didn't want to start hammer drilling the concrete wall today. The next step is to try and use the distribution blower on the stove? I wonder if anyone ever did that? Why run two blowers when I'm already running the one on the stove. I have the distblwr on low, but could turn it up. I have some temp measurements fromthe bedroom when I started it up but it's a fairly warm day. The next coldsnap I will block it off, and let the bedroom temp go down, and then test