Hot enough burn for pipe cleansing?
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You "clean out the pipe" with a chimney brush. You keep from crapping it up in the first place by burning dry wood and not croaking the stove down too low.
Here is a good thread to read on regarding this topic.
The consensus is that you should be burning hot enough all of the time to keep creosote from accumulating. This "daily hot burn" practice will not prevent the buildup of creosote from frequent long, cool, smoldering fires. These fires just shouldn't exist. Burn a small hot fire instead. The point here is if you have bad practices all the time, and you overfire your chimney every day, when the inevitable happens (your chimney catches fire due to your poor burn practices) that it will be a small one. So, the rational is a small fire often is better than a big fire once in a while. My point, if you do it right, along w/ good chimney maintenance, you should not have to worry about either.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/65194/
pen
The consensus is that you should be burning hot enough all of the time to keep creosote from accumulating. This "daily hot burn" practice will not prevent the buildup of creosote from frequent long, cool, smoldering fires. These fires just shouldn't exist. Burn a small hot fire instead. The point here is if you have bad practices all the time, and you overfire your chimney every day, when the inevitable happens (your chimney catches fire due to your poor burn practices) that it will be a small one. So, the rational is a small fire often is better than a big fire once in a while. My point, if you do it right, along w/ good chimney maintenance, you should not have to worry about either.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/65194/
pen
I'm going to deviate just a little here. First off what kind of chimney? Class A stainless is way more forgiving of short bursts of high heat than clay tiles. Second what kind of creasote? If its the shiny tacky stuff then I agree with the statements above. If its the dry flakey stuff then a little morning blast to loosen it off the walls of a stainless pipe IMO is OK. Unless your are burning an EPA type stove some creosote is unavoidable. I've burned for 9yrs now on 2 different pre EPA stoves and I burn hot all the time on 3yrs plus dried wood and I get creasote. I will occasionally run a hot fire to try and loosen the flakes.
You ever see those 'loose flakes' fly out of the chimney?
My wife let the stove run much hotter than we normally do the other morning before engaging the cat. I found a few black flakes around outside and figure about the only place they could have come from is the chimney - no nearby neighbors burn, or at least not that nearby. They were thin, dry, light as can be and fell apart when I picked them up (leaving my fingers very black of course). She had let the single wall inside get up to about 550 surface temp according to the thermometer and her best memory of "a little bit past the top". No glowing that she saw and I can't see any sign of damage (i.e. all the paint everywhere looks to be in perfect shape/color etc). Anyway I wonder if perhaps whatever was in the flue just loosened up and blown up the stack...
My wife let the stove run much hotter than we normally do the other morning before engaging the cat. I found a few black flakes around outside and figure about the only place they could have come from is the chimney - no nearby neighbors burn, or at least not that nearby. They were thin, dry, light as can be and fell apart when I picked them up (leaving my fingers very black of course). She had let the single wall inside get up to about 550 surface temp according to the thermometer and her best memory of "a little bit past the top". No glowing that she saw and I can't see any sign of damage (i.e. all the paint everywhere looks to be in perfect shape/color etc). Anyway I wonder if perhaps whatever was in the flue just loosened up and blown up the stack...
I commute into town to earn my living and am gone for 10 hours at least. So the new EPA stove is burning cool all that time. There are coals when I get home and I just build it up again. The stove is soapstone and it takes a few hours to get into the "no creosote" temperature range. Is my lifestyle (being away from the farm all day) incompatible with heating with wood? I've lived with wood heat for 30 years, but only recently by myself. My husband used to take care of the stove during the day. Now he spends his winters in the tropics (jungle tour guide). Opinions please!
liston said:
At the end of the day, so long as you are practicing good burn habits (using dry wood, having a fire hot enough that it's burning cleanly, chimney is staying clean) then you are doing just fine.
pen
liston said:
I to have a soapstone stove. It takes the same amount of time as any stove to get into the "no creosote" zone. I am guessing you are meaning the stove top temp. With Soapstone the rock takes longer to heat up yes but the fire is still the same temp, all other things being equal, as any other stove. The no creo zone is measured with the flue temp not the stovetop. If you are burning properly seasoned wood, getting the secondaries going, and shuting down the air control in stages. Oh and the secondaries stay lit when you are done, you are burning it correctly and if you have a lot of creosote there is something else no quite right.
That being said, sweep the chimney, or have it done a couple times the first year or two. You may be surprised how clean these EPA stoves burn.
Oh and WELCOME to the forum !
Burning off the creosote daily is just one of those old wives tales or stupid practices passed down from generation to generation. The plain and simple answer is to use good fuel and you won't have a thing to worry about. That means you should have your wood split and stacked for 2-3 years before you burn it. Anything less and you are asking for problems and also not getting the full benefit of heat from your fuel.
Like BB stated, you clean the chimney with a brush.
liston, your burning practice should be okay as long as your fuel is right. Even though the stove top is not up to temperature, your flue reaches the clean burn temperature rather fast.
Like BB stated, you clean the chimney with a brush.
liston, your burning practice should be okay as long as your fuel is right. Even though the stove top is not up to temperature, your flue reaches the clean burn temperature rather fast.
My stove is an older Defiant 1A with top exhaust. It has convection exhaust option, which I use all the time. It routes the exhaust from the bottom of the cavity, opposite the air inlet. The pipe from the stove is single wall for 33 inches up, including the oval to round adapter, 90 degree elbow, 12 inches to wall thimble at the single to double wall adapter,(all double wall insulated from here) through the masonary wall into the cleanout elbow (outside the house now), up 14 feet to a pair of 30 degree elbows, 6 feet of straight to screened cap. I get smoke when loads are added or on startup, but most of the burn is smoke free. My temp is usually around 425 meausred on the stove pipe adapter 6 inches above the stove. All pipe is stainless once outside.
I have only burned about two weeks, 24/7. The inside of the stove is white. There is some black debris on the side door I use to load the wood through, but not much, and it could be from the prior owner's burns.
I have only burned about two weeks, 24/7. The inside of the stove is white. There is some black debris on the side door I use to load the wood through, but not much, and it could be from the prior owner's burns.
Hard to say what the temp of the flue gas will be coming out of the top of the chimney. There are too many variables like chimney height, outdoor exposure, stove operating temp, outside temps, etc. I usually try to burn my first fire a little hot, with about 6-700F probe flue temp for about 15-20 minutes. We have an interior flue and only burn dry wood. The flue was cleaned last fall. There were a couple cups of dry flakey stuff collected, after about 8 cords of wood burnt over 3.5 seasons. But I have gone up on the roof and checked the top section every year, just to be sure. If you are new to your stove or burning wood that you are uncertain of its moisture content, there is no substitute for a proper cleaning done as frequently as needed. If the wood is damp, this could be a frequent as every few weeks.
FWIW, this is documented in some stove manuals. Ironically I just finished reading this one:
"To prevent creosote build-up in the pipes, the stove should be run between 800°F and
900°F for 30-45 minutes each burning day." (Assuming they mean with a probe thermometer).
PS: Just checked some more manuals. This is from the Regency 2400:
Ways to Prevent and Keep Unit Free of Creosote
1) Burn stove with the draft control wide open
for about 10-15 minutes every morning
during burning season.
2) Burn stove with draft control wide open
for about 10 - 15 minutes every time you
apply fresh wood. This allows the wood to
achieve the charcoal stage faster and burns
up any unburned gas vapours which might
otherwise be deposited within the system.
3) Only burn seasoned wood! Avoid burning
wet or green wood. Seasoned wood has
been dried at least one year.
4) A small hot fi re is preferable to a large
smouldering one that can deposit creosote
within the system.
5) Check the chimney at least twice a month
during the burning season for creosote
build-up.
6) Have chimney system and unit cleaned by
competent chimney sweeps twice a year
during the fi rst year of use and at least once
a year thereafter or when a signifi cant layer
of creosote has accumulated (3 mm/1/8" or
more) it should be removed to reduce the
risk of a chimney fire
FWIW, this is documented in some stove manuals. Ironically I just finished reading this one:
"To prevent creosote build-up in the pipes, the stove should be run between 800°F and
900°F for 30-45 minutes each burning day." (Assuming they mean with a probe thermometer).
PS: Just checked some more manuals. This is from the Regency 2400:
Ways to Prevent and Keep Unit Free of Creosote
1) Burn stove with the draft control wide open
for about 10-15 minutes every morning
during burning season.
2) Burn stove with draft control wide open
for about 10 - 15 minutes every time you
apply fresh wood. This allows the wood to
achieve the charcoal stage faster and burns
up any unburned gas vapours which might
otherwise be deposited within the system.
3) Only burn seasoned wood! Avoid burning
wet or green wood. Seasoned wood has
been dried at least one year.
4) A small hot fi re is preferable to a large
smouldering one that can deposit creosote
within the system.
5) Check the chimney at least twice a month
during the burning season for creosote
build-up.
6) Have chimney system and unit cleaned by
competent chimney sweeps twice a year
during the fi rst year of use and at least once
a year thereafter or when a signifi cant layer
of creosote has accumulated (3 mm/1/8" or
more) it should be removed to reduce the
risk of a chimney fire
Yes sir, don't know about "old wives tale", do know, straight from my manual:
High Burn Rate: A high burn rate is recommended once or twice a day to fully heat the stovepipe and chimney; this also helps keep the amount of creosote in your stove and chimney to a minimum.
"Your creosote may vary"
High Burn Rate: A high burn rate is recommended once or twice a day to fully heat the stovepipe and chimney; this also helps keep the amount of creosote in your stove and chimney to a minimum.
"Your creosote may vary"
Where will creosote build up in early stages? I really don't want to check the top section for it is on the roof, and I don't want to skate around there right now. Should I remove the cap at the cleanout and check for droppings? Incidentally, I am learning today how much the stove can elevate the house temp as the exterior temps rise. We have been a constant 15-30 range for over a week. Today it hit 38, and the house is at 77 degrees. My eyes are burning.
I agree with the Holy Trinity of Brother Bart, Backwoods Savage and Pen . . . burn seasoned wood, burn at the proper temp, use proper airway management to not suffocate the fire and check and clean the chimney on a regular basis vs. doing the hot, daily fire.
And since you're asking for opinions . . . I think your husband should invite you down to spend the winter in the jungle since it sounds much more appealing.
And since you're asking for opinions . . . I think your husband should invite you down to spend the winter in the jungle since it sounds much more appealing.
BeGreen said:
BeGreen, this is just another example of someone copying some stuff they read somewhere else and then they pass it on as wisdom of wood burning. Sad to see it just passed on and on but we see it even in the old almanacs. Some folks just aren't aware of what is truly necessary vs. some over-ages baloney. However, some of what they printed is still wise even today so we won't bash them too hard.
hey mywaynow. i like that handle. i too burn a defiant 1 these stoves are great heating machines BUT it doesn't take much to make a load of creosote with these stoves. some people i've talked to used to call them a creosote factory. for your stoves sake get a second thermometer for the cook top of the stove. you don't want to damage the stove trying to run a certain temp on the pipe. in my experience with this stove and my thermometer on the pipe up at 16 inch up off the stove is that if i run the thermometer at 450 on the pipe in it's downdraft mode the stove is running to hot. enough to start the right side of the stove to glow. it usually runs 375 on the pipe and the cooktop is running 500 to 525 degrees. all i'm saying is be careful. what you'll damage is the fireback and or the baffle. i'm burning pine for the first time ever. in new england if you say burn pine people ask if your crazy. but burnt right and it's great. my first couple to 3 or 5 fires i didn't have it right and made my chimney look like a black slick. but now boosted the temps up to 600 to 700 on the cooktop. and the chimney only smokes when reloading and then very little if any there after. it i still get 5 to 7 hours of burn time. chimney is doing ok not perfect but well. hasn't got any worse since i raised up the temps. hope this helps you.
happy holidays
frank
happy holidays
frank
Backwoods Savage said:
I'm not sure about that. In Europe I saw a lot more semi-seasoned wood burning. We also see a lot of this here. There are all sorts of installations out there. For some with cooler flues, this might be good advice. Not everyone has a modern catalytic stove cleaning up the flue gases.
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