HH fast-seasoning idea...

[got wood?]

So as I am splitting and stacking my HH an idea occurred to me...could HH seasoning be accelerated by increasing the `chimney effect' that everyone claims is so effective at seasoning? I've got my HH up on a platform consisting of 2 layers of pallets which are supported by cinder blocks. If I were to put a...let's say 60 watt light bulb in the bottom center of the HH (not under the pallets, but next to the center pole at the bottom layer of splits) and had that on all day (or at least at night), the little bit of heat it generates would surely vent up, drawing in from the sides as the HH is designed to do...at night as the temp of the outside of the HH falls, the inside could potentially remain a few degrees warmer, aiding the air movement/chimney effect. For the cost of 1.4KW of electricity a day (if 24x7), that's not too bad, and to boot it would look like a giant jack-o-lantern! ;-)

Of course I've thought of this after I've got an established base that would make it difficult to retrofit currently...we'll see how motivated I get.

The reason for accelerated seasoning BTW is to get about 5 cords of hardwood that was bucked last year ready for this burning season...not sure if it will make it in time...sigh

 

[Jags]

I think if creating a draft is your goal, then a 60 watt fan would out-perform a 60 watt bulb. The heat from the bulb would be almost negligible compared to the mass of the HH, so I doubt that would be of any use, so that brings me back to the draft thing. And at 60 watts I don't know of any draft inducing item that is better than a fan.

That being said, I doubt it will help much. Just my $.02.

EDIT..... just as a comparison, think of how many btu's (which can be converted into watts if you so choose) that HH will absorb in one sunny afternoon.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'm with Jags on the fan or blower. I don't know if it will make much difference, but the current draw from a small motor will be less than 60 watts, and will produce more effect, in this particular application.

 

[wg_bent]

Mount one of these under your HH!

(broken link removed to http://www.gemplers.com/shop/heatingcooling/fans/134403.html)

 

[got wood?]

I think if creating a draft is your goal, then a 60 watt fan would out-perform a 60 watt bulb. The heat from the bulb would be almost negligible compared to the mass of the HH, so I doubt that would be of any use, so that brings me back to the draft thing. And at 60 watts I don't know of any draft inducing item that is better than a fan.

That being said, I doubt it will help much. Just my $.02.

EDIT..... just as a comparison, think of how many btu's (which can be converted into watts if you so choose) that HH will absorb in one sunny afternoon.

That's a good point...I was going the thermal route thinking that it could/would move more air through the entire HH and not just `up the chimney' of the HH so to speak...slow moving warm air vs faster directed air. Now that I think about it...you are probably right, Jags, about the thermal mass of the light vs. the wood.

All this makes me wonder about what it *would* take to create a meaningful thermal mass...one with enough energy to sustain a decent drying draft day or night. If there was a way to maintain the heat the HH absorbs on a sunny afternoon internally through the night...Wish I had some computational fluid dynamics software to kick this one around...

 

[wg_bent]

I think if creating a draft is your goal, then a 60 watt fan would out-perform a 60 watt bulb. The heat from the bulb would be almost negligible compared to the mass of the HH, so I doubt that would be of any use, so that brings me back to the draft thing. And at 60 watts I don't know of any draft inducing item that is better than a fan.

That being said, I doubt it will help much. Just my $.02.

EDIT..... just as a comparison, think of how many btu's (which can be converted into watts if you so choose) that HH will absorb in one sunny afternoon.

That's a good point...I was going the thermal route thinking that it could/would move more air through the entire HH and not just `up the chimney' of the HH so to speak...slow moving warm air vs faster directed air. Now that I think about it...you are probably right, Jags, about the thermal mass of the light vs. the wood.

All this makes me wonder about what it *would* take to create a meaningful thermal mass...one with enough energy to sustain a decent drying draft day or night. If there was a way to maintain the heat the HH absorbs on a sunny afternoon internally through the night...Wish I had some computational fluid dynamics software to kick this one around...

Get Rhonemas on it. This is right up his alley. Have a solar panel system direct the solar energy under the HH or some PV panels drive the fan. There are so many possibilities.

 

[Todd]

One thing I found with my HH last year was that mice and chipmunks make it there home, and if they happen to build their nests near a light bulb it may catch fire. I wonder what an 8' HH would look like in full blaze! :bug:

 

[karl]

I was thinking of ways to speed the drying and I googled "kilns" or "solar kilns" Or something like that a while back. I found a site from had a few designs. Basically they built a very well insulated box with poly carbonate green house panels for the roof. They say to angle the roof towards the south at the same angle as the latitude of your location. Then they use fans to draw heat down from the top of the kiln through the wood. They said it would dry lumber in about a month and half in the summer time. I figured that the time I spent making one would equal the time it would take to cut a few cords of wood, so I didn't fool with it. However, in a year or two I do plan to build a wood shed and I will probably enclose it with that foam board insulation instead of leaving it open. They say the temps in it will get to 160° to 200°. One thing they said was that if you run the fans 24 hours a day then moisture content will not get below 15% and you will waste electricity. If you only run the fans during the hottest few hours of the day then the moisture content will get much lower. Heres a few cut and pastes from there performance numbers on different types. The wood appears to be board lenghth and 4 inches thick or so. I would think you would get atleast as good performance with logs since they maybe a little thicker but not 8 feet long.

PERFORMANCE: Drying time for cedar, cherry, walnut, and yellow-poplar in a mixed load with green and air-dried MC’s to a final MC of 6-12% is 60 days in the summer.

PERFORMANCE: Drying time for a mixed load of black cherry, 4/4-inches (2.5 cm) thick, from 60% MC to 6% MC: and white oak, 4/4-inches (2.5 cm) thick, from 16% MC to 7% MC is 52 days in summer
Drying time for a mixed load of cottonwood, 8/4-inches (5 cm) thick, from 130% MC to 10% MC; and black walnut, 4/4-inches (2.5 cm) thick, from 85% MC to 12% MC is 47 days in the summer
Drying time for black cherry, 4/4-inches (2.5 cm) thick, from 50% MC to 8% MC is 218 days in winter and spring. No drying defects were noted

 

[Henz]

the best thing to do is just to get a year ahead..break down and eith buy two years worth of green hardwood or cut for 2 years of hardwood..then you never have to worry! that is what I did this year and then some..its a sacrafice but well worth it

 

[zzr7ky]

What kind of wood???

I was in a tight bind last year. I cut a lot of Ash and Cherry, stacked it in longrows no more than 2 deep, so they ends faced East/West. Much of the wood was 2 months after bucking... I got only a handfull of fly ash out of the liner this Spring. Oak I wouldn't think of trying this.

Long, loose packed rows with the ends Facing the Morning and Evening SUN is your best bet. Swapping wood with someone local is also a good idea.

ATB,
Mike P

 

[Henz]

yeah, some things work for some. not others..I wouldnt burn a single stick of anything without at least 6 solid months of drytime

 

[got wood?]

What kind of wood???

I was in a tight bind last year. I cut a lot of Ash and Cherry, stacked it in longrows no more than 2 deep, so they ends faced East/West. Much of the wood was 2 months after bucking... I got only a handfull of fly ash out of the liner this Spring. Oak I wouldn't think of trying this.

Long, loose packed rows with the ends Facing the Morning and Evening SUN is your best bet. Swapping wood with someone local is also a good idea.

ATB,
Mike P

a mix of maple and oak...I was worried about this...I would have had this done last year when I bucked it but a number of big things preempted my wood processing this year...so I fell behind and may have to purchase (shudder) a cord of seasoned split wood...that'll teach me!

So I'm a bit confused here...is it the air circulation or heat (baking time) that seasons wood the fastest...Of course the easy answer is *both* but if you had one over the other to season wood with, which is preferable...

 

[Henz]

in your case, I would say constant air circulation..one bulb isnt gonna give off enough heat to dry the wood. I would use the sun to your advantage as much as possible and use air circulation.

 

[got wood?]

in your case, I would say constant air circulation..one bulb isnt gonna give off enough heat to dry the wood. I would use the sun to your advantage as much as possible and use air circulation.

solar attic fan?? Hrmmmm That's an interesting idea. The wood has been bucked since '06 and is pretty well checked...but that don't mean nothin' until it's split in my experience. Hopefully being 6+ inches off the ground on an open pallet platform will aid that...

jas

 

[n6crv]

Ok I have to ask. What is an HH? I tried a search and did not find a answer. Sorry for being unable to find out myself.
Don

 

[jqgs214]

Holz Hausen (forgive the spelling?)

 

[budman]

Ok I have to ask. What is an HH? I tried a search and did not find a answer. Sorry for being unable to find out myself.
Don

HOLZ HAUSEN

 

[budman]

Holz Hausen (forgive the spelling?)

BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH.

 

[Burn-1]

I'm going to toy around with one this weekend if I get the chance. My plan is to build a small HH like I did last year which was about 6 feet high and 4 feet across as a scale model

I'm going to lay some swimming pool noodles over the top and down the sides and then wrap black plastic around the pile starting about a foot off the ground and up toward the top but leaving about a three foot opening. Essentially like a sleeve with an opening at the bottom and the top with an air space between the pile and the plastic provided by the noodles. I'm hoping that it'll get a good chimney effect going.

 

[got wood?]

I'm going to toy around with one this weekend if I get the chance. My plan is to build a small HH like I did last year which was about 6 feet high and 4 feet across as a scale model

I'm going to lay some swimming pool noodles over the top and down the sides and then wrap black plastic around the pile starting about a foot off the ground and up toward the top but leaving about a three foot opening. Essentially like a sleeve with an opening at the bottom and the top with an air space between the pile and the plastic provided by the noodles. I'm hoping that it'll get a good chimney effect going.

That's interesting! Leaving a bit of a gap for circulation around the HH is important I believe...and black wrap to help bake is w/ solar energy I assume...when you mention the 3 foot opening, you mean at the top, correct? Much like a parachute, right? That makes a lot of sense to me...does the location of your HH get a lot of sunlight? My location is less than ideal, but I don't have any choice in the matter.

 

[Burn-1]

That's interesting! Leaving a bit of a gap for circulation around the HH is important I believe...and black wrap to help bake is w/ solar energy I assume...when you mention the 3 foot opening, you mean at the top, correct? Much like a parachute, right? That makes a lot of sense to me...does the location of your HH get a lot of sunlight? My location is less than ideal, but I don't have any choice in the matter.

Yes, essentially the idea is to make a low-tech solar kiln of sorts with a parachute like hole for the top. I got the inspiration from some of the new solar updraft technology and from some middle eastern architecture. I'll send in pics when done but I'm not expecting it to be too pretty.

 

[fbelec]

burn-1 that sounds like a great idea. if we had someone that had two side by side h h's then we could see if it works. but imho i think it would work. for what this is worth i cover my wood on the top of each row with black plastic 3 feet wide and i can say that the first couple of layers of wood are considerably lighter in weight than the rest of the stack within about 1.5 to 2 month of time.

i'm thinking of trying a h h also i've got 1 cord of free poplar and 1 cord of red oak split but not stacked yet and 2 to 3 cords of red oak that i'll need to split coming.
2 questions

how long are those pool noodles?
and how much are they?

 

[Burn-1]

how long are those pool noodles? and how much are they?

Mine are free since I got a few from my dad when he sold his house. But (broken link removed to http://pooltoy.com/waternoodle.html) at these would suggest that they're not that expensive. I would think that given how late it is in the summer some place would be trying to sell them more cheaply

 

[Jags]

how long are those pool noodles?
and how much are they?

They are pretty dirt cheap, but really you would just be looking at creating an air gap, so any thing from 2 liter pop bottles to milk jugs could be used (tie a string to them and slip it under the log closest to your desired placement.) Just throwing ideas out. Sounds like a cool project.

 

[karl]

From what I've read about the solar kilns is that the heat is in the top of them and you need to suck the air down through the wood and out the bottom. What if you bought some of that foam insualtion board and put clear green house roof sheeting on the top and a small fan on the bottom? You could leave the bottom of the kiln open and make the whole thing just larger than a cord of wood. Then set it on top of a cord for a few months, pick it up and set it on top of another cord for a few months. If the wood was stacked on pallets, you would have pretty much the same thing they are building, and they manage to get green lumber into the single digit moisture range in a few months buy only running the fan during the hottest part of the day.