Help with Tree ID Please

[PeteD]

I have done 4 or 5 on-line tree identifiers and they never end up with the correct tree. Wanted to ID this backyard tree for a few years. Like an ash/sumac/locust of some sort, but none I find seem to match exactly.

Pictures are worth a thousand words (these are all the same exact tree):

TIA,
Pete

 

[smokinj]

Ash

 

[TreePointer]

12+ leaflets per leaf?
Terminal leaflet often missing?
Alternate (not opposite) leaf pattern?

I'm leaning toward black walnut.

(As always, pictures can be deceiving and I reserve the right to be wrong, LOL!)

Some helpers:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/fruits/blackwalnut5.htm
(broken link removed)

 

[PeteD]

These compound leaves alternate which seems to rule out ash from my research?

Not sure about terminal leaf, I seem to have one in the photos, though.

The wood from a few branches I trimmed is quite heavy too.

 

[TreePointer]

Also, bark looks more like black walnut to me.

Terminal leaflet (not leaf) may or may not there with black walnut. It often will be missing.

 

[PeteD]

I should add that I believe the fruit from this tree is a relatively small pod of some sort - none present yet this year, so my memory is foggy on exact appearance.

 

[smokinj]

12+ leaflets per leaf?
Terminal leaflet often missing?
Alternate (not opposite) leaf pattern?

I'm leaning toward black walnut.

(As always, pictures can be deceiving and I reserve the right to be wrong, LOL!)

Some helpers:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/fruits/blackwalnut5.htm
(broken link removed)

Yep. ANd walnuts are on now! Oh and them leaves are not thin enough to be walnut either. (Honey locust maybe) But put my money on ash! :coolhmm:

 

[PeteD]

Does honey locust have spikes?

This tree does not have any...

 

[TreePointer]

Does honey locust have spikes?

This tree does not have any...

There are thorned and "thornless" varieties of black locust and honey locust trees.

I have many ash, walnut, and locust trees on my property. With certainty, that is not a black locust or honey locust.

 

[CJRages]

Pecan?

Your third pic shows where a branch was cut off? That wood looks orange to me - so doubt it is black walnut... Also if it were BW you would have noticed their fruit is very distinct (round, green, and not to mention the smell - not podlike at all) :lol:

 

[smokinj]

Does honey locust have spikes?

This tree does not have any...

Black locust has thorn under the bark and after looking more and help from you I change to black locust...... Seed pods

 

[smokinj]

Pecan?

Your third pic shows where a branch was cut off? That wood looks orange to me - so doubt it is black walnut... Also if it were BW you would have noticed their fruit is very distinct (round, green, and not to mention the smell - not podlike at all) :lol:

Pecan fruiting:

lol black walnut is black with walnuts on it, thats bl

 

[TreePointer]

As I stated, pics can be deceiving. I see what I think is leaves without terminal leaflet on some (indicating black walnut) and also the bark looks like it IMO. However, I do agree the leaflets in some pics look a little wide for black walnut, but some leaflets can be wide and it could be lack of size reference.

Black locust leaflets are rounded (no points) and that bark is not nearly deeply and largely furrowed as a black locust would be.. Pods are an easy indicator for locust, but I don't think the tree in question has pods (in spite of the OP's recollection)--it looks like a walnut family tree (walnut, pecan, hickory).

Also, black walnut trees don't always produce walnuts--especially for the first couple decades (give or take a a few years) of the tree's life.

 

[smokinj]

As I stated, pics can be deceiving. I see what I think is leaves without terminal leaflet on some (black walnut) and also the bark looks like it. However, I do agree the leaflets in some pics look a little wide for black walnut, but some leaflets can be wide and it could be lack of size reference.

Black locust leaflets are rounded (no points) and that bark is not nearly deeply and largely furrowed as a black locust would be.. Pods are an easy indicator for locust, but I don't think the tree in question has pods (in spite of the OP's recollection)--it looks like a walnut family tree (walnut, pecan, hickory).

Post #5

 

[TreePointer]

Yep. ANd walnuts are on now! Oh and them leaves are not thin enough to be walnut either. (Honey locust maybe) But put my money on ash! :coolhmm:

Black walnut trees don’t always produce walnuts—especially for the first couple decades (give or take a a few years) of the tree’s life. After that, walnut production can vary drastically from year to year.

Neither black locust or honey locust have pointed leaflets.

Aren't there too many leaflets for ash?

 

[PeteD]

Definitely has pods but look like ash pods. I would be convinced of ash but for the alternating leaflets. Maybe there is a variety of ash with alternating leaflets (not according to searches I have done)?

Heartwood is not black, more orangy-brown.

Very familiar with black locust; this is not black locust. Black locust around me has more rounded leaflets and much longer pods than this tree.

"Pollen stringers" (not sure of technical name) were distinctive and about 2 to 3 inches long. Looked like many little mini-florets of broccoli on shaft, but more golden/greenish color.

 

[TreePointer]

"Pollen stringers" = catkins.

 

[PeteD]

Thanks for the catkins term. I should have grabbed a photo of them when they were fresh a couple of weeks ago.

 

[smokinj]

Definitely has pods but look like ash pods. I would be convinced of ash but for the alternating leaflets. Maybe there is a variety of ash with alternating leaflets (not according to searches I have done)?

Heartwood is not black, more orangy-brown.

Very familiar with black locust; this is not black locust. Black locust around me has more rounded leaflets and much longer pods than this tree.

"Pollen stringers" (not sure of technical name) were distinctive and about 2 to 3 inches long. Looked like many little mini-florets of broccoli on shaft, but more golden/greenish color.

If you know what it is not. Then ash first guess. :coolhmm: Just the only thing left! lol You will never forget when you have a walnut tree around. Mine all have walnuts already and a bumper crop with all the rain.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Man this one is tough... the only thing in my mind that doesn't go well with all the others is "pod-like" fruit. If we could change the leaf photos or the fruit description then it would be easier.

Pod-like fruit would be more like a locust or ash. This is NOT a locust, and doesn't seem like Ash to me based upon the leaf photos.
This is an ash seed, it's like the helicopter seeds of maple trees.

The bark is definitely not locust, looks like ash or possibly a hickory family (not shagbark though).
The leaves definitely look like something in the hickory family but "pod-like" fruit doesn't fit. The young leaves look exactly like those on my Pecan trees at home. Catkins like small florets of broccolli all on a shaft is definitely hickory-like.
Here is a picture of a hickory catkin

and pecan catkin

The lack of fruit on this tree doesn't really tell us much. Many pecan varieties bear alternately. They bear a large crop one year and no crop the next.


Ash much as I want to agree with others, I must say this is not an ash tree. This tree is in the hickory family and you're just mistaken on the pod-like fruit.

 

[Brewmonster]

Have you ruled out Ailanthus?

 

[PeteD]

Examined the tree this morning again. Will post some photos tomorrow (need cable to download).

Made an interesting discovery. Overall, the compound leaves on this tree tend to be more opposite than alternating. My photo in the OP probably shows a leaf containing leaflets with the most offset of any of the ones I can easily see on the tree. As a result, I would say the leaves are actually opposite (most look opposite) and not alternating = ASH. Also, every leaf I could see did have a terminal leaflet on the end.

I also have an Arbor Day-purchased black walnut which I looked at this morning too. One or two leaves looked very similar to my photo above in terms of a slight offset to the leaflets that does not quite look perfectly opposite. However, on the black walnut, these were the closest to being opposite as could be found on the tree. The other leaves were very clearly alternating.

I think the moral of this story is that one leaf is not sufficient to make a judgment on opposite/alternating leaflets. Rather, an evaluation of many leaves is needed because there is some variation in the growth habit from leaf to leaf. I did not realize the possible extent of this variation from the guides.

Any way to tell what kind of ash if I get some fruit this year? (the ash pods people have posted look very much like what I remember on this tree also)

 

[oldspark]

I believe I have seen that type of tree on my place with the new pictures you show so I am thinking White Ash, I can look later and see if mine are the same. Not sure about the long dangling thingies though. I have no idea what I am talking about but so never mind, still think the pod things look familar. I need to read the posts before I post. :sick:

 

[TreePointer]

Yes, the samara ("seed pods") of different ash types have different shapes. Also, buds and leaf scars can get you a good ID.

Here's a link:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0055.html

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Does honey locust have spikes?

This tree does not have any...

Black locust has thorn under the bark and after looking more and help from you I change to black locust...... Seed pods

The leaves don't look like locust at all.