Hearthstone Advice Needed

[Nazgul]

I have decided on getting a new Hearthstone stove but am in a bit of a quandary trying to determine which model. I want to install it on my first floor Great Room which currently has a masonry fireplace with a small hearth. The fireplace measurements are 35w in the front tapering to 32w in the back, the initial opening is 30h inches in the front then going up to like 36h where the flap opens. The hearth in front of the fireplace is 16 deep and 73w. The stone on either side of the fireplace is 19w. I have provided a link below to some pictures of the fireplace, I can take more if anyone thinks it'd be useful.

The room that the stove would be in is about 670 sq ft, with the adjacent rooms being about 400, 125 of that being a 20ft tall foyer with a spiral staircase going upstairs. My priority would be to heat the downstairs (about 1000 sq ft combined) and get as much as I can upstairs (also 1000 sq ft). I have a whole house HVAC system which I've been told I could use to circulate the hot air around by turning on the fan. Is this accurate? The house is relatively new, built in 2003. It's pretty air-tight, all the windows were Low E double-pane high grade when installed. I was thinking about doing a cold-air intake option since my fireplace is already rigged for that (there is a 3inch wide hole on the left side of the fireplace).

I am currently considering the Heritage, Phoenix and Mansfield. Squeezing the Mansfield into the fireplace is going to be very difficult if even possible. I would need/want to put whatever stove I get partially inside the fireplace and the rest on the hearth with maybe 1/2 to spare from the edge. I'd then buy a temporary hearth to lay on the wood floor in front of the hearth (which is about 10 inches off the ground). I like the Heritage a lot but getting the side-door to open is going to be iffy, although I think it's doable. I would of course do a double wall pipe and rear heat shield with whatever I choose. My preference would be to use this as my primary source of heat, I live on a lot of acreage and have a hydraulic log-splitter, chainsaw, pickup and tons and tons of accessible wood. I'm kinda tired of dropping 2-3k a year on oil.

I think that's about it, any advice would be welcome and if you have questions for me just ask away.

Thanks.

Link to Pictures: (broken link removed to https://picasaweb.google.com/colorin/DropBox?authuser=0&feat=directlink)

 

[BrowningBAR]

If you do the Heritage, would you have enough room to side load the stove? If not, go with the Phoenix. The Phoenix is made for front loading. The Heritage is not.

If this was me, I would find a way to go with the Mansfield since I like it really warm and like the longer burn times. But, the Mansfield is top vent only and you would need to rework that fireplace to make it work.

Please include where you live. You could live in Fort Lauderdale for all I know. :lol:

 

[Nazgul]

When I measured the Heritage door in the showroom it looked like I'd be able to open it almost all the way, the handle would just end up hitting the stone, so however deep that is I'd deduct that from it opening completely. I'm right down the road from you in PA. lol I initially wanted the Mansfield and provided they can either remove the flue and put it in or tilt it to get it in I think it'd fit. Does it matter that with the Heritage or Mansfield that I'd only have about 2 inches on either side of the stove part that's in the fireplace?

 

[Nazgul]

Also I'm looking at the V shaped cast-iron baffle or whatever it is that's in the pictures, that only opens maybe...4 inches? Would I need to remove that somehow, it seems pretty solid and not sure how that's done. Is having that normal? The chimney looks pretty big from what I can see when opening it.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Also I'm looking at the V shaped cast-iron baffle or whatever it is that's in the pictures, that only opens maybe...4 inches? Would I need to remove that somehow, it seems pretty solid and not sure how that's done. Is having that normal? The chimney looks pretty big from what I can see when opening it.

I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[Nazgul]

I took a few more pictures of what I'm talking about. The fireplace doesn't just go straight up, there is a large (guessing cast iron) metal frame above it with a notched lever (not attached in picture, using it to push it open in a few) that is used to open it up. The V shape points up at the tip of the V. I never really looked inside a fireplace, so just did a search and it's the damper. It doesn't open a whole lot, want to make sure that the pipe can make it up I guess is what I'm saying.

I think my fireplace is structured exactly like this: (broken link removed to http://www.tinytom.com/images/index_1.gif)

 

[BrowningBAR]

When I measured the Heritage door in the showroom it looked like I'd be able to open it almost all the way, the handle would just end up hitting the stone, so however deep that is I'd deduct that from it opening completely. I'm right down the road from you in PA. lol I initially wanted the Mansfield and provided they can either remove the flue and put it in or tilt it to get it in I think it'd fit. Does it matter that with the Heritage or Mansfield that I'd only have about 2 inches on either side of the stove part that's in the fireplace?

With the Mansfield, my concern would be that you would have to stick too much of the stove into the fireplace. I would be concerned about sticking too much of the stove into the fireplace and not giving the stove the ability to move the heat around.

If anyone has a Mansfield stuffed into a fireplace, please chime in.

My experience with having a stove in a fireplace is with an Intrepid and an Encore. Currently I have the Encore, and it is working out very well, but I do know that I am losing some of it's heating capabilities due to it being partially in a fireplace. With the Intrepid (much smaller stove) it was really obvious.

 

[Nazgul]

With the Mansfield, my concern would be that you would have to stick too much of the stove into the fireplace. I would be concerned about sticking too much of the stove into the fireplace and not giving the stove the ability to move the heat around.

If anyone has a Mansfield stuffed into a fireplace, please chime in.

My experience with having a stove in a fireplace is with an Intrepid and an Encore. Currently I have the Encore, and it is working out very well, but I do know that I am losing some of it's heating capabilities due to it being partially in a fireplace. With the Intrepid (much smaller stove) it was really obvious.

I agree, I did read that if I did something like this that I'd need a damper seal (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/). That should help prevent the heat from escaping up the chimney. My other option is to do an insert which I really didn't want to do...

 

[BrowningBAR]

With the Mansfield, my concern would be that you would have to stick too much of the stove into the fireplace. I would be concerned about sticking too much of the stove into the fireplace and not giving the stove the ability to move the heat around.

If anyone has a Mansfield stuffed into a fireplace, please chime in.

My experience with having a stove in a fireplace is with an Intrepid and an Encore. Currently I have the Encore, and it is working out very well, but I do know that I am losing some of it's heating capabilities due to it being partially in a fireplace. With the Intrepid (much smaller stove) it was really obvious.

I agree, I did read that if I did something like this that I'd need a damper seal (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/). That should help prevent the heat from escaping up the chimney. My other option is to do an insert which I really didn't want to do...

I have had great success with a pipe damper on the Heritage. But, it really depends on your draft.

 

[Nazgul]

Unless someone thinks I can fit a Mansfield in there and have it work well I think I'll get a Heritage and do a pipe damper. I should be able to open the side door and if it heats up to 1900 sq ft that should hopefully cover a better part of the downstairs and I am considering cutting holes in the floor above the fireplace (if need be) and move the air directly up to the master bedroom upstairs. It'd be nice to find out if people have had success using their existing HVAC duct-work to transport heat throughout the house.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Unless someone thinks I can fit a Mansfield in there and have it work well I think I'll get a Heritage and do a pipe damper. I should be able to open the side door and if it heats up to 1900 sq ft that should hopefully cover a better part of the downstairs and I am considering cutting holes in the floor above the fireplace (if need be) and move the air directly up to the master bedroom upstairs. It'd be nice to find out if people have had success using their existing HVAC duct-work to transport heat throughout the house.

In our climate, 1,900 square feet is pushing it. The Manfield would be the better option. But, you can't make a square peg fit in a round hole. Would the Heritage make a big dent in your heating bill? Yes. Would it provide whole house heating throughout the winter? No.

There are other options than Hearthstone. The Jotul Oslo is a larger stove, side loads, and back vents. You might want to look at that before you go with the Heritage. The Jotul Firelight would also work, but that is a little larger than the Mansfield, so that might be too much stove for the area.

 

[leeave96]

One thing you are going to have to be concerned with is front clearance with a front loader. When you consider the stove, consider also 16 or 18 inches of floor protection too. Three stoves come to mine are the Vermont Castings Defiant/Encore, Woodstock Progressive Hybrid and the Jotul F600. Maybe even the Quadrafire Isle Royle too. All of these are top or rear vent stoves. The Woodstock is a side loader only, so the front clearance will be around 8ish inches. Woodstock is also a soapstone stove too.

The Mansfield is a great looking stove - to bad you can't get it in a rear vent.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[BrowningBAR]

One thing you are going to have to be concerned with is front clearance with a front loader. When you consider the stove, consider also 16 or 18 inches of floor protection too. Three stoves come to mine are the Vermont Castings Defiant/Encore, Woodstock Progressive Hybrid and the Jotul F600. Maybe even the Quadrafire Isle Royle too. All of these are top or rear vent stoves. The Woodstock is a side loader only, so the front clearance will be around 8ish inches. Woodstock is also a soapstone stove too.

The Mansfield is a great looking stove - to bad you can't get it in a rear vent.

Good luck,
Bill

Of the three stoves you listed, I would lean towards the Progress Hybrid for the following reasons:

Not a large house. (though, not small)
Seemingly low maintenance.
Can be burned at lower temps.

My reasoning for not doing the VC:
I always have problems recommending a VC stove. They run like champs for me, but so many others have problems with the stoves, and we have so little info on the new 2-in-1 I would feel bad if it caused the poster grief.

My reasoning for not doing the Firelight and Isle Royal:
Large stoves in a tight house (claimed) that like to run hot.

I think the Progress Hybrid or the Oslo would work well in this situation.

 

[Nazgul]

Thanks for the suggestions, i'll have to look at all of them and figure something out soon. I'm not expecting to heat my whole house, just the first floor of one half and some of the second. My house is split by a carport/breezeway so the chances of me getting the heat over to the other 1700 sq ft isn't going to happen. :-( If anyone has a suggestion how to move heat up stairs over a carport and into another section let me know! That section has no fireplace so I figured I'd have to leave it oil, it has its own zone.

I did look up the hybrid and couldn't find a whole lot on it, seems like its brand new and people probably don't have them yet or are just getting them. My parents have that Jotul and like it, and theirs is hearth installed. I like what I've read about soapstone so would like to do that if possible. I also have a terracotta pipe coming out of the wall in the basement specifically for a wood burning stove but was told that putting a beastly stove down there would only make the basement a furnace and the heat wouldn't make it to the rest of the house. Is that true?

Well typing on touchpad and it sucks so going to stop for now. Lol Thanks again for the help.

 

[ryanm527]

I have a mansfield about 2/3 into an old open type fireplace. When it gets into the cold stretch of winter we have to use a fan to get heat out from behind the stove into the room. I do not consider the setup ideal but it works. We're also working against a large, old, and extremely inefficient stone house that requires massive amounts of heat to stay warm. In a more efficient home it might work better.

I had wanted the equinox but it would not fit in the space I had available.

 

[Nazgul]

The Woodstock Progress Hybrid looks nice but it's too tall to fit into my fireplace, by a good 3 inches. I am going to go to the dealer sometime this week and see if they think they can fit the Mansfield in my fireplace, I don't mind having 1/2 of it in and the other half out. If I put a damper kit in there to block the heat from going up and use the outside air accessory I would expect that it'd pump out a decent amount of heat. If they think it's iffy I'll just go with the Heritage or the Jotul.

If anyone thinks that I can put like a Mansfield/Equinox in my basement and not make it a furnace and get the heat elsewhere in my house I'm all ears! :D I have also thought about putting a smaller free-standing stove in the basement to heat that area (like 700 sq ft) and then any residual can go up through vents I can poke in the floor. I have a very wide chimney with 3 flues, one in the basement with just a terracotta pipe sticking out of the wall about 6ft up, then the Great Room above and then Master Bathroom above that.

 

[BrowningBAR]

If I put a damper kit in there to block the heat from going up and use the outside air accessory I would expect that it'd pump out a decent amount of heat. If they think it's iffy I'll just go with the Heritage or the Jotul.

The damper will only work if you have a good draft. Otherwise it will cause more problems than anything. Having the stove partially in a tight fireplace will cause heat to be trapped in the fireplace (not the liner/chimney). Are movement will be limited to some degree. This is what I have experienced with the Encore and Intrepid.

 

[Nazgul]

What would denote a good draft? I see a lot of people with stoves in fireplaces, how do they handle that? Sadly I don't have the luxury of installing it freestanding sans fireplace, except for in the basement.

 

[BrowningBAR]

What would denote a good draft?

I can not offer any technical details or specs that would provide a good answer. I just don't have enough knowledge in that area. I do know that all three stoves I run have good, strong drafts. I suspect, but can not confirm, that most setups with a Hearthstone would probably benefit from a pipe damper.

I see a lot of people with stoves in fireplaces, how do they handle that?

I am not saying it will not work. It works for me with the Encore. But, I do know that some heat does get trapped in the fireplace and this limits the ability of the stove to move heat. The Encore is a tight fit in my fireplace. Based on your photos and description, it looks like the Mansfield will be a tight fit as well. I wonder how this will effect the Mansfield in terms of getting heat out of the fireplace since half of the stove will be tucked into a fireplace. It could work well, but I am letting you know that it will limit the stove to some degree.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Could go with a blower and heat shield.. Would help negate the intrapment of heated air behind and beside the stove... (That is regardless of what stove you choose)

 

[ryanm527]

Your fireplace looks to be a lot tighter than what I put the mansfield in. I too struggled with heat going up the chimney, or at least the perception that a lot of heat was going up the chimney and heating that structure instead of the living room. My installer sealed it, though I can't say I noticed a huge difference. Here is a discussion I had started about it: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/70621/

Just based solely on my experience, I would think you'll be disappointed with any radiant stove you put in that hole. Regardless of which one you choose, I think you'll want both a block plate to seal the chimney opening and some kind of method to circulate air behind the unit. We've been satisfied with our setup, but very underwhelmed with the system performance as a whole. The stove isn't to blame, it's the environment in which I put it. I would suspect you may have some of the same frustrations we've had. I just don't think radiant stoves are intended to be placed inside most fireplaces. I think that's what inserts are for. At least in my opinion.

 

[Nazgul]

Yeah I don't think I can do a Mansfield there, it'd be almost entirely in the fireplace. I want to do this sooner than later and while the Progress Hybrid looks interesting I'm a little adverse to buying something brand-new that no one has reviewed yet. The fact that the Phoenix and Heritage go out the back means I'll go with one of those. There is a sale now on both (250 off) so I'll need to pull the trigger sometime this week or next. With the Heritage I could have only 5 inches of it sitting inside the fireplace and the rest outside, so that's pretty good. The Phoenix is a little less deep so I could have another inch or two outside. I'll just buy one of those cheap hearthstone things to put in front and I'll be good to go. The only reason to go with the Heritage would be for the side-loading door which I need to make sure can open with the fireplace. If I get a damper seal, rear heat shield and outside air I think that'll suffice.

 

[ditchrider]

I bought the Heritage one year ago. I love it, but I use it as a freestanding stove. I abandoned and tore out my old masonry fireplace that I installed an Earth Stove into when I bought my house from my grandfather's estate. Overall it was just a sorry situation....

So, from my experience both with the old and having the new this is my humble opinion- If the fireplace you have is located properly in your home, BUT considering the Heritage works very well as a side loader BUT NOT very well as a front loader, I would consider two options here. Either install the Heritage with adequate room to utilize the side door, or go with the Pheonix. If the masonry of my old system was located to effectively heat my home I would have considered this option.

Using the front loading door creates a constant mess with ash, regardless of how careful one is to open it. And my children are VERBOTEN to use this door. My family does miss the instant heat of a cast iron stove, but the large glass area of the Heritage model does compensate for this quite a little bit. Another consideration you may appreciate is the Pheonix may tend to throw more heat forward out of the masonry in your situation, as it is a "Hybrid" with both soapstone and a cast iron front. Just my two cents worth, I hope it's helpful.

 

[Nazgul]

I bought the Heritage one year ago. I love it, but I use it as a freestanding stove. I abandoned and tore out my old masonry fireplace that I installed an Earth Stove into when I bought my house from my grandfather's estate. Overall it was just a sorry situation....

So, from my experience both with the old and having the new this is my humble opinion- If the fireplace you have is located properly in your home, BUT considering the Heritage works very well as a side loader BUT NOT very well as a front loader, I would consider two options here. Either install the Heritage with adequate room to utilize the side door, or go with the Pheonix. If the masonry of my old system was located to effectively heat my home I would have considered this option.

Using the front loading door creates a constant mess with ash, regardless of how careful one is to open it. And my children are VERBOTEN to use this door. My family does miss the instant heat of a cast iron stove, but the large glass area of the Heritage model does compensate for this quite a little bit. Another consideration you may appreciate is the Pheonix may tend to throw more heat forward out of the masonry in your situation, as it is a "Hybrid" with both soapstone and a cast iron front. Just my two cents worth, I hope it's helpful.

Yeah that's very helpful. Absolutely if I can't side load with the Heritage there is no point in my mind of getting it. That's good to know about the possibility of the Phoenix throwing off a bit more heat. I'd honestly be fine with either, but leaning towards the Heritage due to side-loading which a lot of people seem to love. Thanks for the input.

 

[ditchrider]

I also love watching the flame patterns one my stove. The Earth Stove I had used to just smolder and creosote the chimney when I shut the air down to get a longer burn. I can see in the Hearthstone how effective the air manifolds are. As startup with the air supply wide open, they just shoot flame all over the place, reburning the wood gases. I read other reviews of Woodstock stoves and folks have split opinions about the maintenance of the catalytic converter. Personally, I wasn't excited about that feature. But honestly, I have no firsthand experience with it. But to me, if you get a cleaner burn with the cat stoves but throw away or dispose of through a recycling center, it's a moot point environmentally speaking. Again, just my opinion. Other people reviewing the Hearthstone stoves seemed more pleased not having to deal with it and they also appreciated the fire viewing with the Hearthstones if they were pleased with the stove. I found mixed reviews about most any brand of stove and believe there are a lot of mechanical issues with the draft patterns of different homes that need to be considered when deciding if a stove works well or not.