Hearth is not 18" from front of stove...

[Stowy]

My hearth is currently 19:, but when I put in a line, it will be like 16". I have a sweep telling me that my Insurance will not cover me - that I need to tell my insurance I am getting a solid fuel burner. I have the stove saleperson telling me to just get a flame retardant carpet if I am that worried. I want to do the right thing. What should I do? Build out my hearth?

Thank you!
- Stowy

 

[Stowy]

Sorry about the bad spelling. THe hearth is 19" but when I put in an Insert it is 16"... That is what I meant to say. Please help me with this decision.

 

[Rhone]

Very common, very even happened to me. You get what's called a "Hearth Pad", it's a fireproof well... pad you put in front of your current hearth. You need 18" in front of the loading door, and a fire resistant carpet will NOT do, has to be fireproof material.

The other option and what I did was to extend the hearth, I ended up cutting out my floor and adding cement board and tile to give me the room. Wasn't too difficult but probably for advanced DIYers. I know, terrible picture (dark), I ripped off the tile of my old hearth, ripped out part of the floor in front of my old hearth, put down some cement board, and then tiled the whole thing so I now have 18" of fireproof material in front of the loading door. If you look at the wood floor you'll see it transitions to tile before my hearth that's basically how I extended it. A hearth pad is a lot easier, and come in many looks you just lay it down in front but risk tripping over it. Some places require a hearth pad to be nailed in place since so many people remove them after inspection.

 

[mtcox]

I called my insurance company yesterday after reading about this issue and others. They had NO interest in the fact that I had a wood burning stove! I was shocked. They were only interested in masonary chimney's and any other permanent structures associated with the house. I described it as the primary source of heat and they still had no interest. I went out on a limb and asked about the fire hazard it created. Still, nothing. I'm not going to beg them for a higher premium. I feel like I did what was necessary to disclose the stove and it's potential hazards.

I suspect, like anything, an insurance company assumes that everything you do is legal and compliant with local, state and federal codes. However, this company wanted nothing to do with it. Apparently their premiums are based on the proximity of both fire hydrants and the fire department and the cost to rebuild your house.

 

[Corie]

What does the manual say for the required floor protector in front of the stove?

 

[fishboat]

mt,

I'm putting on ein too & my insurance company (Erie) didn't care. She said bring in a receipt/invoice for the installation to put in the file, but other than that it didn't matter.

 

[KevinM]

My insurance company didn't care about an insert. They know the house has a fireplace and assume it would be used. An insert is probably lower risk. They said they would need to know if a freestanding stove with a new chimney was installed.

Kevin.

 

[webbie]

Current NFPA standards (USA) call for 18" in front of a new installation. Of course, that is open to a lot of interpretations such as:

1. Existing installations which met the 16" formerly required do not have to be extended
2. Manuals for stoves often lag years behind the NFPA new standards
3. Same with the labels on the stove
4. I would guess that MOST insurance companies and some building officials would not yet have completely read and implemented the newer codes (ever see how thick the entire code is?)

That said, it can be argued that if you install the unit to the manual and label, you may have done the minimum job. But once you know that the standard has been raised (and there is a reason for it), you should (IMHO) have some sort of hearth extension on the floor or elsewhere to get the 18" or more. You will probably save yourself a few spots on the rug.

In most cases, this extension is not for heat, just for sparks - so a low cost hearth extension board and/or a piece of stone would do the job - especially with a raised hearth.

Note that the measurement is usually from the actual door of the unit - not the furthest out point.

 

[Cearbhaill]

In my attempt at the doofus question of the day.... concrete floors are ok... right?

 

[ncmallard78]

the 18'' rule is for sparks and the risk of a flaming log rolling out? correct? its not due to the fact that radiant heat might ignite combustables in front of the stove? im currently at 16" on a raised hearth, and could roll out a hearth pad, or leave as is.

 

[webbie]

My guess is that the 18" is for sparks......further guess is that this was changed to simplify things, because some larger stoves and fireplace openings needed larger distances. If something is needed for "heat", it would usually:
1. Be at the same level as the stove, as the "shadow" of a raised hearth would cut off nearly all radiation to the floor right up against it
2. Be stated in the manual, as stoves are UL tested with the clearances in the manual (passed).

20+ years ago, an independent lab for wood stoves (Shelton Research) did some testing on these extensions, and came to this conclusion:
"There is NO distance which is the right distance, as sparks can fly 20" as well as 12", etc."

In other words, the further you go out, the less "chance" there is, but there is no spec that is specifically a "line in the sand" that works every time.

 

[thephotohound]

Cearbhaill -

Don't quote me, but I believe the requirement is a minimum concrete thickness of 2". I am assuming yours is on a slab? (mine too). Let's both hope there's more than 2"!

 

[Harley]

Stowy:

Off the main topic for just a second, but regardless of how much the insurance company says they don't care about the stove. I'd say its a good idea to notify them in writing that it was installed. Provide them with copies of the inspection, and a description of what you have. Its very likely the premiums will not go up at all. Better to have piece of mind knowing that you would be given the runaround should the worst happen.

 

[eba1225]

Mine is based on the requirements called out in the manufacturers reccomendations. The inspector/current code did not allow the pad, it must be the standard heart type material.

 

[Mmaul]

I had the same problem it took me a weekend to extended the hearth but I went out 8 1/2" to give me 20 1/2" clearence in case I ever wanted to get a bigger insert. I didn't think it was all that hard if you know how to lay tile I will try to down load a picture tomorrow.

 

[begreen]

Stowy, what insert is this? Some can get the hearth very warm and others not too much (they heat more by convection).

 

[CountryGal]

I have 24" in front of the stove door now. We had the carpet cut out and put down ceramic tile over the cement subfloor when we got the new stove.

BTW, I have a small burn in my carpet from the old smoke dragon days. It is well over 3' from the stove so stuff happens.

 

[cbrodsky]

I called my insurance company yesterday after reading about this issue and others. They had NO interest in the fact that I had a wood burning stove! I was shocked. They were only interested in masonary chimney's and any other permanent structures associated with the house. I described it as the primary source of heat and they still had no interest. I went out on a limb and asked about the fire hazard it created. Still, nothing. I'm not going to beg them for a higher premium. I feel like I did what was necessary to disclose the stove and it's potential hazards.

I suspect, like anything, an insurance company assumes that everything you do is legal and compliant with local, state and federal codes. However, this company wanted nothing to do with it. Apparently their premiums are based on the proximity of both fire hydrants and the fire department and the cost to rebuild your house.

It's not common, but I got the same response from my insurer - USAA.

I followed the same method as Rhonemas on my install - cut out the wood floor and coverted to a flush install of tile - looks great and is not that hard for a DIY project. Particularly if you can extract the wood floor in some full board increment - then you don't even need to worry about making a careful straight cut except for the two short sides.

-Colin

 

[Stowy]

I am considering the Buck Stove Model 85. So this leads to my next question. Do I need to pull a permit, get an inspection, etc? I guess I will check with the City.

 

[Stowy]

BY the way, Thanks! You all rock.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

In my attempt at the doofus question of the day.... concrete floors are ok... right?

concrete dont burn, if the floor in front of the hearth is constructed of combustible materials then the 18" hearth is needed , if the floor is concrete, like a basement floor then the whole floor is essentially the hearth, so no need for the measurements

 

[ncmallard78]

wow! im in chapel hill nc

 

[Rhone]

I am considering the Buck Stove Model 85. So this leads to my next question. Do I need to pull a permit, get an inspection, etc? I guess I will check with the City.

You need to pull a permit, after being installed before lighting a fire it needs to be inspected by your local building inspector who will come, verify the clearances, and afterward you get the approved permit in the mail. You fax that to your house insurance company, and go on your way of lighting your fires!

 

[JimWalshin845]

If your insurance agent doesn't want to know and gives you advice to that fact I would suggest you get it in writing. I know of 2 homes that burned to the ground due to fipples/stoves and the insurance company balked .... they had to hire a subbrogator to get satisfaction.

If you are going to change your hearth, think about a much larger area, a better heat sink source, attractive, places to keep wood and utensils, very durable and much easier to keep clean.

Good luck and welcome aboard,
Jim

 

[Stowy]

Funny I read the Municiple code for Garner, NC and asked my sales person - it appears I do not need a permit.

Todd