Greenfire tear down and rebuild

[sparke]

So the fun begins. I forgot to take pics of the unit before I broke it down. Here are a few pics with it broke down. Will post more as I progress...

IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p83/sparkie68/Greenfire006.jpg[/IMG]

 

[rsnider]

good pics keepem coming.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Two really stupid questions . . .

1) Wouldn't taking a pic BEFORE you disassembled it been a good idea when the Green Lights start going down easy and you have a handful of 'spare parts' left over? and
2)What's the scoop on the Buderus? Their gas units are supposed to be top of the line . . .what happened to yours?

 

[sparke]

1. Not that many parts as to be concerned with reassembly.
2. Buderus is a great boiler for the era but I would say it is 15 - 20 years old. Still heats great but I am guessing 60% efficiency tops = short burn times about 4 hours. What pushed me over the edge is running outta dry wood while sitting on 16 cord of 6 month old Oak. This boiler will burn it fairly efficiently. Unlike most gasifiers this one isnt as fussy about dry wood. Let's not even start the whole dry wood discussion

 

[sparke]

Today I finish insulation and outter skin + plumbing.

 

[machinistbcb]

Wow!! The pics are great. Those boilers really are a simple design. How thick is the steel paneling on the outside? What type of insulation is that on the outside of the refratory ? After seeing these pics I think I may try to build one of these.

 

[sparke]

machinistbcb,
A good welder could easily make one of these. The only special tool you would need is a tubing bender. Even that could be rented. An electrical bender could be used if you could find a shoe with the proper I.D. to match pipe. (I am guesing electrical pipe o.d. and plumbing pipe o.d. are different) An exhaust pipe bender is yet another I.D. all though I have used one to bend electrical conduit when in a pinch ; I would suggest going to www.rohor.com and buying the plans if you want to build your own...

Oh ya, I intentionaly left out the fire tube pics only for the fact I felt it is unethical to post the whole design for the whole world to see... Greenfire sent this to me specifically so I could tear down and rebuild. I don't think it would be fair to that company or Fred Seton to post "everything". Call me old fashoned...

 

[wsurfer49]

That does not look too intricate of a design. For a tubing bender look at Harbor Freight or Northern Hydraulics. HF will be cheaper and all the stuff I got from them has worked quite well so far. They have a 12 and a 20 ton bender, I have the 12 and it will bend up to 2" pipe, the 20 will bend 3".

I have given some thought to making my own boiler, I built a backhoe and a towable grader but I think my money and time would be better spent on a proven design and also having that certification might make a difference when it comes time to sell the house. I have to put in some type of furnace for that reason as well as insurance since I just burn wood in an older stove now. Insurance companies have become very particular about wood burning and they might also give some grief about a home built boiler. Just a thought, but might want to check it out b4 buying a lot of steel. Could always use the steel though.

Rob

 

[machinistbcb]

I did notice that the fire tube seems to be top secret. It is not pitcured anywhere On Fred seton site or the green fire site ethier. But one could use their imagination anf figure it out pretty easy. My problem with buying the plans from Seton is the price 700.00 !! I am a cheapo do it yourselfer Mainer and I just cant drop $700.00 for a set of paper prints. I understand he has a lot of time and money invested in the design, but come on $700.00

 

[rsnider]

questions:
1. does greenfire have ash pan on bottom?
2. does greenfire have steel reinforced refractory like seton?
3. did you pay less the way you did it not 100% completed?
4. did they give you the sealant for final build?
5. does the door have refractory on it?
6. how thick is the refractory pieces?
7 how thick is the other insulation?

just asking to see the diff. from the seton. thanks for all the good pics helps me allot to see how this design is put together. this boiler may be on my list looks pretty good and the price wow. thanks in advance ryan.

 

[brad068]

I did notice that the fire tube seems to be top secret. It is not pitcured anywhere On Fred seton site or the green fire site ethier. But one could use their imagination anf figure it out pretty easy. My problem with buying the plans from Seton is the price 700.00 !! I am a cheapo do it yourselfer Mainer and I just cant drop $700.00 for a set of paper prints. I understand he has a lot of time and money invested in the design, but come on $700.00

I looked at a Greenwood one time and seen the ASTM # of the steel for the water tubes. It SA 106 SCH 40 steel pipe I believe it was 1/2". This grade of pipe is for high temp service. It is dimensionally the same as SCH 40 black pipe only differences is that SA 106 is seamless and the grade of steel is better. I purchased some of this pipe through local heating/plumbing wholesaler.

 

[sparke]

questions:
1. does greenfire have ash pan on bottom?
2. does greenfire have steel reinforced refractory like seton?
3. did you pay less the way you did it not 100% completed?
4. did they give you the sealant for final build?
5. does the door have refractory on it?
6. how thick is the refractory pieces?
7 how thick is the other insulation?

1. Yes
2. Inside the refractory like re-bar?
3. No - all their units are built. Owner said they had to build this one.
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. sides = 4" front and back may be thinner I didnt measure them.
7. Sides = 2" + 1" , 1" Ceramic insulation all around the top of firebox.
2" + 1" ceramic insulation on top.

A ssomeone else pointed out in the other thread- no nozzles just metal tubes from comb. air damper into bottom of refactory.

Still plumbing today. Will update later...

 

[rsnider]

thanks for the info. yea does it have rebar in the refractory?

 

[kuribo]

You can't put rebar in refractory because of the different thermal expansion rates. The rebar would expand at a greater rate and crack the refractory...

 

[mikeyny]

Then I would suppose the same thing would happen if you used re-enforcing wire of some sort??

 

[kuribo]

yes....cast refractory is not reinforced in the same manner as regular concrete...

 

[rsnider]

no rebar does make sense

 

[SciGuy]

I used stainless steel wires in the refractory mix that I cast for my Russian Stove some 25 years ago. It has nicely stood the test of time.

Hugh

 

[sparke]

I have the ole girl up and running. First impressions: I am impressed. Last night I built a small fire. I had all I could do not to load her up but the company I bought it from(Valley Trailers) suggested a few small fires to help cure the refractory. Today I built a slow fire and with 3 pieces of kindling + 5 dry splits. I then threw 5 pieces of green oak approx. 6" diameter. The fire lasted from 9:30 - 2:30 (5 hours) heating down stairs. Approx. 1000 sq ft. I then reloaded with 1-12" piece of green oak and about 4 more pieces of 6" green oak. Here are a few pics of the fire + temps at at 7:00. Also no smoke coming out of chimney just white steam that dissipates about 10' after exiting the flue...

 

[brad068]

Sparke,

Is that a piece of galvanized duct piping that your Condor temp sensor is on?

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

First let me say . . .Nice work putting that together and getting up and running. They are apparently smarter than GreenWood . . .they paint the front black so you won't notice the smoke build up on the face! Keep us posted. Can you buy parts for that? If they were interchangeable with my GW I'd consider buying replacements for my refractory.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Other than the lack of a drain pipe on the relief valve, it looks good to me.

I'm curious about the placement of that Ammark draft control. Usually they screw right into the boiler, but I guess if you don't have a pressure vessel, you can't do that. I'm thinking you need continuous circulation through that fitting for the draft control to work right. Is there flow through there at all times? I guess ditto for the aquastat.

 

[sparke]

Garnification, yes it is all galv. except the one elbow at the top - all pieces are 24 gauge. I am waiting for a SS liner. Then I will replace all of it. I am used to galv. burning off the chemicals quick but with the low stack temps it seems to linger...

Isee, Give GREENFIRE a call ask for Mark. They are very helpful. Customer Service is good and I have had all my questions answered promptly...

 

[sparke]

Eric, I knew you would catch that I went to the plumbing shop and grabbed all the fittings before I started. At the end I was short 1 male to female adapter. I will do that in the a.m. In the meantime if it pops it is in a safe place. Also, you are correct, the vessel comes with supply and return piping. No place to screw in sensors or samson. The manifold is my creation. I put the aquastats very close to the supply outlet. The way this vessle is made, heat transfers quite well that close to the outlet piping. When the system is cold the aquastats lag by about 10*. Once everything is warmed up all the temps seem to correspond across the system. The samson may have a bit temp. difference but it is located in the supply stream so it is pretty close to accurate... Eventhough you cant see it I have 2 aquastats. 1 for circ. between boilers and one for overheat control. I also have a temp relief bypass for a dump zone if the temp goes over 210*

 

[sparke]

First mornng I have ever woken up to a warm house. 17* outside - 72* inside!! Temp on boiler @ 7:00 a.m. 190* nice bed of coals. Filled boiler at 10:30 p.m. The oil gun just got turned off for the season!!