Great room is ready!!!! (pic heavy)

[crackshot]

the great room is ready!! its about time too,.... the nc 30 will be here tomorrow, looks like ill be having an install party sometime this week! can not wait............sorry all had to erase the pics for some reason everyone could see my whole album.....

 

[MikeP]

Hate to be the possible bearer of bad news, but your hearth doesn't appear to meet the R value specs required by Englander for the NC-30. Unless you put something between the plywood and tile not shown in the pictures...

http://englanderstoves.com/manuals/30-NC.pdf

Snip from page 8

The approved protector board should be
large enough to provide a minimum of eight inches (8â€) behind the unit, eight inches (8â€) on both
sides and sixteen inches (16â€) in the front where the door is located. The protection must have an
R-value of 1.5 (English units) or equivalent (See “Installation on a Combustible Floorâ€). This stove
requires a minimum 39.0†x 52.5†floor protection.

 

[begreen]

Indeed, the hearth R value is very important. Also, tile should not have been directly applied to plywood. This will need to be redone correctly.

OTOH, the wood processing setup is pretty impressive. Nice to have the backhoe hold the tree.

 

[greythorn3]

boy that looks great! i think the proper r value will be worth the altering of it for safety of the little ones and yourself

 

[ziggy19]

Good job Crackshot, 2 questions. How old are you and where did you get that cool drill.

 

[nate379]

Plywood is an approved base for tile, so I don't know why it would be a problem.

I put concrete board on top of my plywood just as an overkill for heatproofing it. 2 layers of 3/4" ply and 2 layers of 1/2" concrete board.

The UL approved hearth pads they sell at my local stove place for $600-700 is just particle wood with tile on top.

 

[ziggy19]

Plywood is an approved base for tile, so I don't know why it would be a problem.

I put concrete board on top of my plywood just as an overkill for heatproofing it. 2 layers of 3/4" ply and 2 layers of 1/2" concrete board.

The UL approved hearth pads they sell at my local stove place for $600-700 is just particle wood with tile on top.

This stove
requires a minimum 39.0†x 52.5†floor protection.

 

[Wood Duck]

I have a similar built-up hearth but I added 2 x 1/2 inch layers of cement board beneath the tile. When I tried to calculate the R (or K) value of the floor I recall that it didn't seem to meet manufacturer's specs for some stoves. In other words, I think tile over wood doesn't meet the spec for all stoves. I am no expert in this matter.

 

[djblech]

Doesn't someone make a fireproof/resistant plywood? I think I used some around a gas fireplace that I framed in. I just remember it was very expensive. 2 layers of 1/2 " tile board should be enough in this case I would think.
Doug

 

[begreen]

Fire resistant is not the same as non-combustible. This is not a place for guessing and 'good enough'. You need to meet or exceed the stove's tested requirements, no exceptions.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/hearth_design

Also note that while you 'can' tile on plywood, it is not recommended unless completely sealed and even then it is discouraged, especially in an application where you want a very stable base due to repeated heating and cooling. Wood expands and contracts at a different rate than the tile.
(broken link removed)
http://forum.doityourself.com/floor...stall-ceramic-tile-over-plywood-subfloor.html

 

[greythorn3]

if theres no airspace between the tiles and wood, i would think that would be a fire waiting to happen, mabe you could use a couple layers of cement board stacked on concrete blocks instead of wood. for a safe hearth and tile that.

cool thing about blaze kings is just ember protection is needed for hearth, but tthe englander needs r 1.5 as stated hearth

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Plywood is an approved base for tile, so I don't know why it would be a problem.

I put concrete board on top of my plywood just as an overkill for heatproofing it. 2 layers of 3/4" ply and 2 layers of 1/2" concrete board.

The UL approved hearth pads they sell at my local stove place for $600-700 is just particle wood with tile on top.

Different stoves have different amounts of shielding that keep the heat from heating up combustible materials too much. The Englander requires a bit more insulation to protect against fire than some stoves.

Matt

 

[crackshot]

all set guys ,..... the pic with the tile not layed its just me laying out the tile before i got my cement boards...... nate379,... i found that very funny also about the approved pre fab pads,.... thats all they are is particle board! ziggy19... lmao! i love my lil guy he HAS to do everything i do! .... also,... the hearth pad measures 5 ft wide by 7 ft deep.... all set with regs... thats guys .....ps........ the stove came in tonight!! wish my pipe was here so i could get her curing,... at least it shipped out today,... but fedex(they suck) is delivering it,... and the tracking dept says its all screwed up from the tsunami.... lmao,.... they cant hold a candle to ups

 

[begreen]

The UL approved hearth pads they sell at my local stove place for $600-700 is just particle wood with tile on top.

What is the R value of these pads and brand? It seems pretty unlikely in that price range that this is their construction. If these are Yoder pads, there is probably a layer of Micore in there too. They have a particle boards base, with Micore, then cement board, then tile.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthclassics.com/thermal_protection_thermashield.php)

 

[crackshot]

just out of curiousity......... and to keep the ball rolling,..... seriously.... how hot does it actually get under your englander stove? has anyone ever checked the hearth temp with an ir gun??????? Its hard to imagine it would get over 200 degrees........but what do i know,.... im no expert by any means. obviously you would want everything done right and not left to chance...... does it really get that hot???

 

[nate379]

I have no idea on R value. I never even heard of that for a stove until reading some stuff on here.

I don't remember the brand, though I know it's just 3/4" particle wood and then tile on top. The pad is roughly 1" thick.

They use that pad for all the stoves they sell... Blaze King, Hearthstone, Hampton, and Regency.

The UL approved hearth pads they sell at my local stove place for $600-700 is just particle wood with tile on top.

What is the R value of these pads and brand? It seems pretty unlikely in that price range that this is their construction. If these are Yoder pads, there is probably a layer of Micore in there too. They have a particle boards base, with Micore, then cement board, then tile.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthclassics.com/thermal_protection_thermashield.php)

 

[nate379]

I'd like to know as well. I know with my BK, the pad gets warm where it's nice and toasty for the feet, but it's certainly not hot by any means.

I have seen many stove setups that had nothing more than a piece of sheetmetal or sheet of asbestos under the stove on the wood floor and that was it.

just out of curiousity......... and to keep the ball rolling,..... seriously.... how hot does it actually get under your englander stove? has anyone ever checked the hearth temp with an ir gun??????? Its hard to imagine it would get over 200 degrees........but what do i know,.... im no expert by any means. obviously you would want everything done right and not left to chance...... does it really get that hot???

 

[begreen]

For some stoves, basic ember protection is all that is required. A sheet of metal will provide that. For other stoves a substantial amount of heat protection is required for the hearth. If Alaska Fireplace is your heath shop, they sell Yoder hearth pads, which have more than just particle board and tile as noted in the link provided.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Perhaps someone with access to some Micore could do an experiment: put one or two sheets of Micore (12"x12", for example) on top of a stove and measure the temperature on top of the Micore after an hour or so. Then do the same with one or two ceramic tiles. Then with one or two layers of cement board. Then...etc.

This would provide graphic, dramatic proof of the heat insulating/conducting properties of various common hearth materials. It would be a lot easier to understand than a concept such as "r-value".

Just a thought...

 

[certified106]

Everything looks great bet you can't wait for the first fire

 

[mecreature]

Install Manual

pg 8

 

[nate379]

When I build my pad, I took a scrap piece of concrete board , about 1ftx2ft and set my torch to the middle of it. It didn't burn, did turn the one side black, but the side I had my hand on didn't get all that hot after 3-4 mins. Hardly a scientific test, but I figured if concrete board could handle a 6000* torch it could certainly handle a wood stove.

Perhaps someone with access to some Micore could do an experiment: put one or two sheets of Micore (12"x12", for example) on top of a stove and measure the temperature on top of the Micore after an hour or so. Then do the same with one or two ceramic tiles. Then with one or two layers of cement board. Then...etc.

This would provide graphic, dramatic proof of the heat insulating/conducting properties of various common hearth materials. It would be a lot easier to understand than a concept such as "r-value".

Just a thought...

 

[nate379]

Yes that is the place. The salesman told me it was just tile and particle board, so that is what I went with. I know I wasn't about ready to pay $600 when I made one custom built to match my house for under $250.

For some stoves, basic ember protection is all that is required. A sheet of metal will provide that. For other stoves a substantial amount of heat protection is required for the hearth. If Alaska Fireplace is your heath shop, they sell Yoder hearth pads, which have more than just particle board and tile as noted in the link provided.

 

[DanCorcoran]

The link to the manual (above) shows that you need r = 1.5. That means that your stove gets very hot underneath. Tile will conduct the heat straight to the wood. We don't want to read about you and your family in the news. Please ensure, for your safety, that your pad has at least r = 1.5.

 

[gpcollen1]

Not to be a buzz kill, but that does not look like a great room to me, just a living room next to the kitchen. Great rooms are usually much more open than that, like if the kitchen was part of the room instead of the door way and the 'window' into the kitchen, and even that would barely do it. In my book, it need to be more of a living room, kitchen and dining room that are wide open except for a few columns - or not. They usually have vaulted ceilings too...