I'm looking at a new EKO 40 and would love to hear one more reason to push me to buy this thing. Anyone know if there are any tax incentives for installing?
thanks,
Jim
thanks,
Jim
Gasification Boiler Tax Credit?
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Use the search function and "tax" -- there are several threads here in the Boiler Room and in other parts of Hearth that discuss this
It appears likely that there will be credits, although that will depend in part on:
(1) the IRS and Energy Star folks finalizing the standards that a unit must meet to qualify (this is apparently still in progress-- supposedly on a fast track, but with guvmint, who knows what "fast" will be...?); and
(2) a manufacturer issuing a signed, written statement that their particular unit that you are buying meets those standards; for an imported unit, be sure that the Mfg. is prepared to do so, and that their statement will be acceptable to the guvmint.
It appears likely that there will be credits, although that will depend in part on:
(1) the IRS and Energy Star folks finalizing the standards that a unit must meet to qualify (this is apparently still in progress-- supposedly on a fast track, but with guvmint, who knows what "fast" will be...?); and
(2) a manufacturer issuing a signed, written statement that their particular unit that you are buying meets those standards; for an imported unit, be sure that the Mfg. is prepared to do so, and that their statement will be acceptable to the guvmint.
I'd be willing to bet it will be a fair amount of time before the EKO becomes eligible for such tax credits. The darn thing isn't even UL yet! Not that I'm complaining, I love my EKO, but the tax credit would have been nice...
Does this whole tax credit thing drive other people crazy, or is it just me?
"Hi. We're the government. You're too stupid to make prudent decisions, so we're going to take your money away. We'll give it back only if you spend it on things that we approve of".
I have a really hard time believing that some bureaucrat out there can make better decisions about my heating system than I can. But they already have my money.
"Hi. We're the government. You're too stupid to make prudent decisions, so we're going to take your money away. We'll give it back only if you spend it on things that we approve of".
I have a really hard time believing that some bureaucrat out there can make better decisions about my heating system than I can. But they already have my money.
nofossil said:
AND what they approve of is ever changing. My wife works as a tax preparer so is familiar with these changes. We bought new replacement windows in 06 because of a tax credit. That credit included other home improvements. Another tax credit was offered during the same time, that included heating systems, but not wood heat. These were only for 06-07. Both have been scratched now, except for the heating system part, that lasted through 08, that still doesn't include wood.
Now there is one coming up for 09 that will include wood heating equipment and we're hoping that even though we bought the Garn in 08, that we will qualify for this because it won't be in use until sometime in 09. Hard to keep up with............
Amen Nofossil.
The temporary tax credits temporarily increase demand, while doing very little to encourage supply. The primary effect is that prices go up. I witnessed this with solar (photovoltaic) panels. They went up 20% in price in the two years between when I was shopping for solar panels and when I bought solar panels. I am in a state that has no state solar incentives (fine), so the increased demand in the other states (with solar incentives) has only increased the prices that I pay.
Besides, even if it did work, it is just morally wrong. "Incentives" is a euphemism for "we took your money and now we might give some of it back, depending on which lobby is most powerful this week." I am in favor of normalized energy consumption (efficiency) ratings for any thing that consumes (or transforms) energy. Give consumers the information so consumers can decide.
The temporary tax credits temporarily increase demand, while doing very little to encourage supply. The primary effect is that prices go up. I witnessed this with solar (photovoltaic) panels. They went up 20% in price in the two years between when I was shopping for solar panels and when I bought solar panels. I am in a state that has no state solar incentives (fine), so the increased demand in the other states (with solar incentives) has only increased the prices that I pay.
Besides, even if it did work, it is just morally wrong. "Incentives" is a euphemism for "we took your money and now we might give some of it back, depending on which lobby is most powerful this week." I am in favor of normalized energy consumption (efficiency) ratings for any thing that consumes (or transforms) energy. Give consumers the information so consumers can decide.
nofossil said:
Not just you. It's true, the tax credit is probably going to benefit my business this year... no doubt about that. Over the long haul, however, I think it would be much better for all of us to let the market decide what products and services succeed and which ones fail instead of a gov't beaurocracy dictating what's best for us. We can make smart decisions on our own... failure to make prudent decisions results in valuable experience that we can apply towards future decisions or share with others. The regulation that we subject ourselves to could be much less intrusive if we would all accept a higher level of responsiblity on a personal level.
But alas, this is not a political forum... thus, I digress.
By the way... just for anyone who is wondering, we are expecting to hear from the powers that be on how the irs is going to handle this in 2 to 3 weeks.
cheers
edited this post to say "probably" going to benefit my business this year. Nothing etched in stone yet.
nothing has qualified for the tax credit as of yet it will probally be another month befor any one knows for sure what will and what wont make it.
Incentives through tax policies are a favorite of politicians-
- yet the net effect is to create an impenetrable thicket that is hard for anyone (even lawyers and accountants) to navigate through, and that invites gaming by those most able to hire the most/ best accountants and lawyers- and who will, thus, maximize the net take home from the game, not the sensible individual or societal economic efficiencies.
The Internal Revenue Code is hard for even lawyers to understand, because of the layers upon layers of incentives, exceptions, exceptions to exceptions, and exceptions to the cross-referenced Nth power...
Politics is to sensible policy as pollution is to efficiency.
Politicians, lawyers, CPAs, investment bankers, and those individuals and institutions who are able and willing to pay to game the system benefit from such a situation. The rest of just PAY.
- yet the net effect is to create an impenetrable thicket that is hard for anyone (even lawyers and accountants) to navigate through, and that invites gaming by those most able to hire the most/ best accountants and lawyers- and who will, thus, maximize the net take home from the game, not the sensible individual or societal economic efficiencies.
The Internal Revenue Code is hard for even lawyers to understand, because of the layers upon layers of incentives, exceptions, exceptions to exceptions, and exceptions to the cross-referenced Nth power...
Politics is to sensible policy as pollution is to efficiency.
Politicians, lawyers, CPAs, investment bankers, and those individuals and institutions who are able and willing to pay to game the system benefit from such a situation. The rest of just PAY.
I certainly agree that at some level any tax incentive is just a way for you to get some of your own money back, I must say that we are very pleased by this development. For our company this could make the difference between a so-so year and a good year - and encouraging folks to do a good thing like put in a wood boiler is alright....right? A good year for this company means keeping people employed and generating work for heating professionals all over the country. Doing this by promoting the sale and purchase of an appliance that reduces our countries dependence on fossil fuel (foreign and domestic), saves homeowners money, and enhances the energy independence of individuals by using a locally available, renewable energy source.......I ramble, but, I'm all for it.
feeling stimulated,
Chris
feeling stimulated,
Chris
I agree that _this_ tax credit is a benign in its intentions and is indeed likely to do good things for homeowners and in spurring the deployment and development of more sustainable approaches energy.
My mumblings and grumblings above were more about our general cultural approach to tax deductions and credits, which has all become so complex as to be ridiculous, and in some instances, result in situations where those who make most pay least, due to abilities of the already-advantaged to pay experts to find ways to game the system.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was about as conservative a person as has been around, said "I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."
I agree with him. I just want a system of taxation that is straightforward, and fair, and that affects people in relation to their actual ability to pay.
When too much wealth and power gets concentrated in too few hands, which, in my opinion, has been happening for years in the USA, it stifles capitalism, democracy, and innovation.
OK, I'm climbing down off my soapbox now, and about to whack it up into kindling for my gasifier
My mumblings and grumblings above were more about our general cultural approach to tax deductions and credits, which has all become so complex as to be ridiculous, and in some instances, result in situations where those who make most pay least, due to abilities of the already-advantaged to pay experts to find ways to game the system.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was about as conservative a person as has been around, said "I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."
I agree with him. I just want a system of taxation that is straightforward, and fair, and that affects people in relation to their actual ability to pay.
When too much wealth and power gets concentrated in too few hands, which, in my opinion, has been happening for years in the USA, it stifles capitalism, democracy, and innovation.
OK, I'm climbing down off my soapbox now, and about to whack it up into kindling for my gasifier
Bravo pybyr! The occasional soapbox stint is part of what makes being part of a community like The Boiler Room fun. And I had never thought about it, but you are right, it can be a great source of kindling!
In short, if the gov't can afford to give you a tax credit... it means only that they have taken more from you than they should have in the first place.
The end.
cheers
The end.
cheers
Seems like gasification wood boiler owners are somewhat of a self-selecting group. Smart enough to realize the benefits of cutting half as much wood, possessing enough work ethic to keep a house warm by burning/handling wood, environmentally conscious enough (at least as far as their own backyards and neighborhoods go) to like the idea of creating less pollution (even if it costs a little more), and independent enough to prefer using a renewable local domestic resource rather than relying on non renewable resources from less than friendly countries. Whew... no wonder the market share is currently so small!
Be not surprised that this same group of people can see through the sham that is now being called a stimulus package. At best, it can be called "giving us our own money back." Whereas the truth is closer to "mortgaging the futures of our children," due to the terrifying levels of deficit spending (i.e. borrowing) this package requires. Forgive me for the uneasiness I too feel when celebrating this piece of pork that has been offered to the wood boiler industry.
One more thought before I burn my soap box too.. can you imagine the customer support nightmare the gasification wood boiler industry would have (after the sales boom hangover wore off) if the gov't subsidized 70% of the purchase instead of 30%? The calls would start out something like... "My house is cold. You mean I have to put wood in this thing? Just where am I going to get that?"
Soap box going in the boiler now.
Be not surprised that this same group of people can see through the sham that is now being called a stimulus package. At best, it can be called "giving us our own money back." Whereas the truth is closer to "mortgaging the futures of our children," due to the terrifying levels of deficit spending (i.e. borrowing) this package requires. Forgive me for the uneasiness I too feel when celebrating this piece of pork that has been offered to the wood boiler industry.
One more thought before I burn my soap box too.. can you imagine the customer support nightmare the gasification wood boiler industry would have (after the sales boom hangover wore off) if the gov't subsidized 70% of the purchase instead of 30%? The calls would start out something like... "My house is cold. You mean I have to put wood in this thing? Just where am I going to get that?"
Soap box going in the boiler now.
Jim,
Go to my website at (broken link removed) and click on the tax rebate text where I talk about it.
This will take you to the energystar website and this is where you will see that for 2009/2010, the stimulus bill that Mr. Presidient signed into law on Feb. 17th, allows for a 30% tax credit (with a cap of $1,500) for the purchase/installation of a biomass heating device that has an EPA efficiency rating of 75% or better. As we all know, the EKO comes from Poland and does not have this rating. However, the details of this tax credit are that you do not need to submit this EPA documentation with you taxes (you do have to keep it on file). I'm confident that myself or nofossil could prove through mathmatical calculations and real life operation that a properly designed and installed EKO system will easily meet the 75% efficiency requirement.
If anybody else has any other opinion that differs/agree's with mine, I'd like to hear some feedback on it.
Regardless of the IRS's requirements, it's extremely difficult to argue with the mathmatical facts and I'm confident that these calculations will satisfy the IRS requirments (it may take a few phone calls to speak with someone at the IRS who can understand this stuff however).
Thanks,
NWM
Go to my website at (broken link removed) and click on the tax rebate text where I talk about it.
This will take you to the energystar website and this is where you will see that for 2009/2010, the stimulus bill that Mr. Presidient signed into law on Feb. 17th, allows for a 30% tax credit (with a cap of $1,500) for the purchase/installation of a biomass heating device that has an EPA efficiency rating of 75% or better. As we all know, the EKO comes from Poland and does not have this rating. However, the details of this tax credit are that you do not need to submit this EPA documentation with you taxes (you do have to keep it on file). I'm confident that myself or nofossil could prove through mathmatical calculations and real life operation that a properly designed and installed EKO system will easily meet the 75% efficiency requirement.
If anybody else has any other opinion that differs/agree's with mine, I'd like to hear some feedback on it.
Regardless of the IRS's requirements, it's extremely difficult to argue with the mathmatical facts and I'm confident that these calculations will satisfy the IRS requirments (it may take a few phone calls to speak with someone at the IRS who can understand this stuff however).
Thanks,
NWM
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