Garage Drain
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Wow. Mine just run out to the wetlands on the adjacent property. Nothing ever goes in there other than snow melt, and a miniscule amount of road salt.Not legal unless its hooked up to wastewater treatment system.
In unrelated news, our township just sprayed what must be over 10,000 gallons of oil on our road, and spread loose gravel on top of that. The day before a substantial rain storm, that likely washed a good fraction of that oil into our yards and watersheds. I noticed they did another road, just a few miles away, which would have used twice the oil of my own. And someone is worried about my garage floor drain?
Better hope they are not using waste oil for oiling down the roads.
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Not legal unless its hooked up to wastewater treatment system.
What happened to "Live Free or Die " ?
Or...." Don't ask, don't tell" ?
Some of us think clean air and water etc. Are nessecary to live free
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Not arguing with your point, but it’s not applicable to the case of peakbagger’s floor drain complaint. Hooking a garage floor drain to a wastewater facility creates more problems than it solves.
Well yes and no some things that would go down that drain would be much better fun through a treatment plant some would not. Really if all the drain is used for is drainage of snow melt and water dripping from the car it would be no issue. But i have seen idiots dump all kinds of stuff down their garage drains. But chances are those guys would just dump it on the ground otherwise so who knows which is better.
"Live Free or Die" state is rural where Mr. PeakB lives. No "wastewater facility" in rural New England. This ain't Philly suburbs.
So...drain leading to a gravel sump, outdoors to a downslope to nowhere, a kind of "french drain" system surrounding the garage. Choose where the drain wastewater goes in a rural environment. No sewer systems in the country Ash.
If there is no harm to the land or neighbors , drain away. Where do you think all that salt melt on highways runs off to ?
And, that mini split of yours is not cheap $$$, uses high carbon refrigerant and materials, and is a high tech repair when it fails. And, mini splits go to resistance heat (very high consumption) below +/- 10
, common in up here. Drain the melt. Don't ask, don't tell.I live in very rural pa and we have waste water treatment facilities. No not everyone is serviced but a large percentage are. I know nothing about the systems in place in nh but i would never want to go to a private sewage system. And yes like i said if it is just snow melt and rain draining off the car it makes no difference at all. But many people dump crap down their garage drains. And if they are forced to hook to their septic system they wont do that because it will destroy their system. The point is if people didnt do stupid crap there would be no need for codes or regulations but unfortunately many many people do stupid sht all the time. Because of that we need codes."Live Free or Die" state is rural where Mr. PeakB lives. No "wastewater facility" in rural New England. This ain't Philly suburbs.
So...drain leading to a gravel sump, outdoors to a downslope to nowhere, a kind of "french drain" system surrounding the garage. Choose where the drain wastewater goes in a rural environment. No sewer systems in the country Ash.
If there is no harm to the land or neighbors , drain away. Where do you think all that salt melt on highways runs off to ?
And, that mini split of yours is not cheap $$$, uses high carbon refrigerant and materials, and is a high tech repair when it fails. And, mini splits go to resistance heat (very high consumption) below +/- 10
And fine.you dont want a mini split. But that doesnt mean it is a bad option for everyone. In the right situation they are a very good solution which is very efficent. And there is no problem with code compliance or insurance coverage.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Hah... you make too many assumptions. The smallest property in my hood is 4 acres, by zoning. Most are over 10 acres, and half our township land space is single properties over 100 acres. I’ve spent quite a lot of time in New England, and never felt any of it was rural, but whatever... it doesn’t matter. Thump your chest and and call yourself “rural”, if it makes you feel better.
My septic system (I have a drain field) is a “wastewater facility”, as defined in the first post on this subject. Why do you assume it must be only public sewer?
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Most of northern New England is federal census "rural". It is real country with 1000's of acres of woodland, fields, and conservation lands both public and private.
Not much in the way of suburban "lots". Most people live in tiny towns and villages with private septic systems, and private wells.
Take a drive in the Northeast Kingdom, VT, northern N.H. in the Whites and north, or in the Great Northern Woods of Maine including former paper company woodlands, Baxter State Park, the AMC lands, and Katadhin Woods, then and only then tell us that you can't see rural. In Maine there are 100's of miles of "woods" unpaved highways such as the Golden Road where you can drive for hours without seeing anything but trees and moose.
Our "septic system" is NOT a "wastewater facility", it is a septic system with what we call a septic field.
Ain't Philly suburban.
What's up with this "hood" ?
No chest thump allowed.
Not much in the way of suburban "lots". Most people live in tiny towns and villages with private septic systems, and private wells.
Take a drive in the Northeast Kingdom, VT, northern N.H. in the Whites and north, or in the Great Northern Woods of Maine including former paper company woodlands, Baxter State Park, the AMC lands, and Katadhin Woods, then and only then tell us that you can't see rural. In Maine there are 100's of miles of "woods" unpaved highways such as the Golden Road where you can drive for hours without seeing anything but trees and moose.
Our "septic system" is NOT a "wastewater facility", it is a septic system with what we call a septic field.
Ain't Philly suburban.
What's up with this "hood" ?
No chest thump allowed.
There are three New Hampshire's, southern NH is pretty much a suburb of Massachusetts some developed areas have wastewater treatment systems but many don't so the development is rural lots that are large enough to handle septic systems. Central NH is developed along the Interstate 93 corridor but head east or west and it gets rural. It also has the lakes region which is mostly big bucks vacation homes on lakes surrounded by woods and the foothills of the White Mountains. Running west to east is the White Mountain National forest and infamous notches (folks from away would call them mountain passes) in between the mountains. Northern NH is generally regarded as north of the white mountains (and US RT2 that runs east to west). Between the national forest and large industrial timberland owners much of the land is undeveloped timberland or protected land. The Berlin/Gorham area and a few other small towns is about it for "civilization". To the east in Maine is even more industrial timberland and to the west is the Northeast Kingdom in VT which also timberland.
The rational for not allowing a floor drain unless its hooked up to wastewater treatment system is that some homeowners and business owners might think that a drain does get some sort of treatment and that leads to potential ground water contamination when they allow contaminants to run down the drain. Top soils in much of NH are shallow with an impervious glacial till or granite not that far down so ground water tends to run shallow. The worse thing someone can do is to build a dry well that is near the groundwater as it introduces contaminants directly into the ground water possibly contaminating someone else's well downhill. The approach of sloping the floor towards the front doors of the garage makes it a lot more obvious that whatever is being dumped is going on and in the ground. Although not ideal, dumping contaminated water on top of the ground is less bad as contaminants that will evaporate tend to go up in the air and the top soil can act as a filter to keep the worst stuff out of the groundwater. There is also some bioremediation that occurs where organisms in the top soil have some capacity to absorb contaminants. This all needs oxygen and air circulation to work and that means getting the contaminants on the surface first. Note that some folks don't care or are uneducated and that can lead to contaminated sites that are darn close to impossible to sell. I know of a few contaminated sites in my area that are for sale for cheap as the soil is contaminated from past usages, no bank will go near them once that's disclosed on the record until its mitigated or the records are "lost". I have heard of several homes with home shops that have had to have costly environmental mitigation due to contaminated soils related to dumping of waste products, usually oil and antifreeze, down the drain. In most cases the cost to mitigate was a big chunk of the sales price meaning the owners or their heirs are out a big chunk of the equity.
The rational for not allowing a floor drain unless its hooked up to wastewater treatment system is that some homeowners and business owners might think that a drain does get some sort of treatment and that leads to potential ground water contamination when they allow contaminants to run down the drain. Top soils in much of NH are shallow with an impervious glacial till or granite not that far down so ground water tends to run shallow. The worse thing someone can do is to build a dry well that is near the groundwater as it introduces contaminants directly into the ground water possibly contaminating someone else's well downhill. The approach of sloping the floor towards the front doors of the garage makes it a lot more obvious that whatever is being dumped is going on and in the ground. Although not ideal, dumping contaminated water on top of the ground is less bad as contaminants that will evaporate tend to go up in the air and the top soil can act as a filter to keep the worst stuff out of the groundwater. There is also some bioremediation that occurs where organisms in the top soil have some capacity to absorb contaminants. This all needs oxygen and air circulation to work and that means getting the contaminants on the surface first. Note that some folks don't care or are uneducated and that can lead to contaminated sites that are darn close to impossible to sell. I know of a few contaminated sites in my area that are for sale for cheap as the soil is contaminated from past usages, no bank will go near them once that's disclosed on the record until its mitigated or the records are "lost". I have heard of several homes with home shops that have had to have costly environmental mitigation due to contaminated soils related to dumping of waste products, usually oil and antifreeze, down the drain. In most cases the cost to mitigate was a big chunk of the sales price meaning the owners or their heirs are out a big chunk of the equity.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
No one cares how rural or suburban your neighborhood is. No need to keep harping on it.
But this quoted point still has me confused. When peakbagger says his floor drain must be “hooked up to wastewater treatment system”, you are saying that a septic system would not qualify as a wastewater treatment system? In other words, he is not allowed to have a floor drain at all in NH, unless he has public sewer? That is not the way I read his post.
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My septic system approval is limited to a 3 bedroom house. I do not think I could add in a garage drain unless it was called out in the system permit. Generally adding a garage drain would require a grit collector and oil separator upstream of the tank. I really would not want to add a garage drain to the septic system even if I could, as it potentially exposes the biology in the tank to non typical waste. My system is oversized but 30 years old and would be a bear to replace so I sure would not want to do it.
At some point when getting my tank pumped, the guy who did the pumping and who owns the company mentioned systems he had pumped that had a thick layer of motor oil floating in the top and some if it had carried out into the field potentially damaging the field. I have talked to several property owners with large paved lots with discharge treatment, they are quite surprised at how often the oil separator chambers need to be pumped and how much gets pumped out. It has to be treated as special waste and be reprocessed before being burnt in a licensed burner.
I am not a saint with respect to oil leaks, my Unimog SEE has a fair share of hydraulic leaks, I try to keep them in check with oil absorbent pads but where its parked has fair share of evidence that I miss some.
At some point when getting my tank pumped, the guy who did the pumping and who owns the company mentioned systems he had pumped that had a thick layer of motor oil floating in the top and some if it had carried out into the field potentially damaging the field. I have talked to several property owners with large paved lots with discharge treatment, they are quite surprised at how often the oil separator chambers need to be pumped and how much gets pumped out. It has to be treated as special waste and be reprocessed before being burnt in a licensed burner.
I am not a saint with respect to oil leaks, my Unimog SEE has a fair share of hydraulic leaks, I try to keep them in check with oil absorbent pads but where its parked has fair share of evidence that I miss some.
Oil is natural too. So are many poisons.
I have built several shops and never sloped the floor as you would with a residential garage.
Not always. Are you too young to have watched the Beverly hill billies?
Well you are right not always there are tar pits etc naturally. But they are very rare.
Again if it is just snow melt goung down the drain it doesnt make a difference because that would have ended up on the ground anyway. But that isnt all that gets put down garage drains.
All of the shops i have built or helped to build are sloped in the area inside the overhead door but the rest is flat. But that comes down to the type of useage and personal preference
Ashful
Minister of Fire
That's the way mine is, too. Front 20 feet across the full width is sloped toward front doors, back third is sloped toward side door. Makes a little extra work of leveling big machinery, but at 1 inch per 10 feet, it ain't a real big deal.
The attached garage is bowled toward center drain of each bay, and I've not measured it, but I'm guessing more like 1/2" per 10 feet. This is a much nicer arrangement, in that all of the snow and road dirt stays under the car, and your garage door seal never freezes to the floor. They like to spread cinders on the roads here, under certain icy conditions, and that makes a complete mess of the garage floor after a few weeks.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Chip seal. The most horrible roads ever.
Instead of spending our money on real roads they are screwing the existing ones up.
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