FPX faceplace with silicone

[FPX Dude]

Hi Hearth guru's;

I've just had a Fireplace Xtrordinair FPX 36 ZC Wood installed. I had the installer "flush-mount" the faceplate to the surrounding tile/marble so it's all nice and even and flat. After the set-up faceplate was removed, the gold plated (or some kind of gold plating finish) actual faceplate was installed and it left about a 1/8" gap between the faceplate and the marble. The instructions say the setup faceplace is 1/8" larger than the actual faceplate so this is normal. The installer used a basic colored silicone caulk to fill-in the gap and make it look nice. He said he uses it all the time on normal fireplaces, but I said what about an actual insert stove.

I'm wondering whether it might cause any problems since I think the faceplate probably reaches same temperatures of the stove, so 600+ degrees right? Do you think it might melt, or burn, just cause problems? I know the instructions talk about using denatured alcohol to clean the faceplate prior to first usage since the fingerprints and any oils or whatever may actually get etched into the faceplate, so I'm wondering if this may cause any problems as well? Please help???

- FPX Dude

 

[builderbob]

Hi Hearth guru's;

I've just had a Fireplace Xtrordinair FPX 36 ZC Wood installed. I had the installer "flush-mount" the faceplate to the surrounding tile/marble so it's all nice and even and flat. After the set-up faceplate was removed, the gold plated (or some kind of gold plating finish) actual faceplate was installed and it left about a 1/8" gap between the faceplate and the marble. The instructions say the setup faceplace is 1/8" larger than the actual faceplate so this is normal. The installer used a basic colored silicone caulk to fill-in the gap and make it look nice. He said he uses it all the time on normal fireplaces, but I said what about an actual insert stove.

I'm wondering whether it might cause any problems since I think the faceplate probably reaches same temperatures of the stove, so 600+ degrees right? Do you think it might melt, or burn, just cause problems? I know the instructions talk about using denatured alcohol to clean the faceplate prior to first usage since the fingerprints and any oils or whatever may actually get etched into the faceplate, so I'm wondering if this may cause any problems as well? Please help???

- FPX Dude

I don't know about technical aspects of silicon caulk. Did you go through a well-established reputable shop for the install? Seems like they would know what works and what doesn't. And why not call the shop and pose your concerns to them? As to instructions on cleaning faceplate with denatured alchohol---why not try that at a bottom corner for a very small piece to see what that does to the silicon caulk.

You could also find a tube of similar caulk and read what it says about high temp application.

Perhaps others here are more knowledge-specificon high temp caulking.

BTB

 

[FPX Dude]

Thanks for the reply...Yes, well-established reputable shop did the install but that's all they do. Now, I had "marble/tile/stone" guy do the remaining work, finishing work, etc., and finalize the install. I couldn't find any documentation on the caulk about temps, just stuff like waterproof etc. I just had this done and finished today this after-noon, so not able to call shops as it's after house. I will call other shops tomorrow about their recommendations tomorrow. Just looking for more advice Thanks again...

 

[Gooserider]

I am assuming this is around the outer edge of the faceplate between the metal and the surrounding masonry - correct? If so, you are probably OK, though it might be close. Normal silicone is usually good to around 600* and while your firebox might reach that, it seems likely to me that you will get enough cooling effect from the distance of the faceplate edge from the box, plus the "heat sink" effect of the masonry that it won't get that hot where the caulk is.

Most silicone caulk is also pretty much proof against alcohol once fully cured, so cleaning should be no problem.

Gooserider

 

[elkimmeg]

Normal silicone is usually good to around 600*

?????


When you do your web searches check out DAP I think you will be amending that 600 degree statement Also check out RTV caulk

I have found one brand silicone that is tested to 800 degrees

Also check what is meant by RTV caulk and how long it is exposed to that upper heat range You search results will be suprising

 

[n6crv]

RTV = (Room Temperature Vulcanizing)

RTV Silicone Sealant
- Replaces gaskets, makes fillets.
- Fill gaps to .125"
- Interior or exterior use.
- Remains flexible.
- Chemicals and fluids resistant.
- Also use with existing gaskets.
- Performs from -60° TO 450°F.

RTV Hi-Temp Sealant
- Replaces gaskets, makes fillets.
- Fill gaps to .125"
- Interior or exterior use.
- Remains flexible.
- Chemicals and fluids resistant.
- Also use with existing gaskets.
- Performs from -60° TO 650°F.

 

[elkimmeg]

What I was getting at is normal painter silicone carries no heat rating and I doubt its anywhere near 600 degrees

This actually happened an insert was installed and the space between the block off plate and flue was filled in with globs or RTV caulk

It was one of those older smoke dragons practically no gasket. The first real fire got out of control the stove turned red and the connector pipe.

The RTV caulk ignited and spilled flaming hot drips Smoked and noxious odor when the FD arrived, Basically they monitored it till it settled down and brought

in the big fans to air it out.

I'm called in to investigate I needed only a few minutes to read the spent tub of caulk to determine it was not suitable for the application.

The owner tells me n he meant to pull a permit but had not gotten around to it yet. Since the stove and owner caused the incident,

I was not going to allow that combination to happen again. I condemned the stove Using the it was unlisted and not labled. I figured I needed some code reference to back it up.


His wife was very receptive to getting a modern safe stove. They ended up with a left over Madison from the dealer that made to installation. Word has it they got a real good deal

 

[Gooserider]

I would agree with not using most silicones for blockoff plates, especially ones that don't have temp ratings, and in the space next to the pipe. These areas are likely to see high temps, and can't be easily observed to see any problems.

However the OP's application was in a visible, more easily monitored location, and one where the temps were probably going to be MUCH lower. The joint in question was also one that isn't subject to any particular stresses or pressure, which further reduces the odds of failure.

Gooserider

 

[Matt_W]

New to the site but have been burning a FPX 36 zc for 4 years now. I have stone veneered as the surround w/the black faceplate. On mine there is nothing to fill that gap although the stone would make that difficult. But I don't think the faceplate gets anywhere close to the stove temp although it is definitely too hot to touch by your hand.
Hope that helps

 

[R&D Guy]

I'd call Travis' customer service and ask them the question. They will likely want to know exactly what type of sealant was used, so you might want to ask your dealer, but as said, if the dealer is reputable then I wouldn't worry about it. If the sealant is on the back side of the face than it should not affect the finish on the front. Also, if the face got up to 600° then it would tarnish the finish and the mfg would have warranty issues. I bet it's closer to 250° at the hottest point (Top center).

Perhaps Shane can comment.

 

[Robbie]

Elk, would that 800 degree silicon work on a double wall stove pipe joint ?


Robbie

 

[FPX Dude]

Guru's,

Thanks for all the great and quick replies. I thought I'd post my follow-up as to what I did. YES, I had actually called Travis and inquired about this application of silicone caulk. They agreed that it is not good. They also had heard stories of melting, fumes, and generally this is not good. Thus, I had the installer remove it. I simply have the ~ 1/8" gap between the faceplate and the marble sides. I'm not sure I'd even go with the 800 degree or high-temp rated stuff either. Yea, it may look a little better with the minor gap filled in, but I'm more on the safe side, and I really like the way it was installed.

Now, having had a few fires this season already, I can say I'm really glad it was removed. I'd also like to say that the previous posts about the marble sides acting as a "heatsink" may not be good either. I think "by touch" the marble sides are hot, no not like 500 degrees hot, but hot to the touch. It seems like about 2-3" away from the faceplate before marble sides actually feel cool again. I'll post a pix in a few days, but my camera is currently on the fritz.

Again, just posting back to the list and hopefully adding to the guru KNOWLEDGEBASE so they can help themselves and help others when newbies like me come calling

Thanks!

 

[drizler]

The red stuff they use on automotive applications in hot areas RED RTV I guess they call it or hi temp rtv. Thats what they use to seal the innards and p vent of pellet stoves. Caterpillar sells it by the caulking tube to seal the final drives and other associated goodies on the tractors. Thats the only high temp stuff I know of. Chrysler and others use as well to seal differential and tranny covers where they are too cheap to use a gasket. I can't imagine the regular GE Silicon II or any similar variants coming near to being as temperature tolerant though.

 

[builderbob]

Guru's,

Thanks for all the great and quick replies. I thought I'd post my follow-up as to what I did. YES, I had actually called Travis and inquired about this application of silicone caulk. They agreed that it is not good. They also had heard stories of melting, fumes, and generally this is not good. Thus, I had the installer remove it. I simply have the ~ 1/8" gap between the faceplate and the marble sides. I'm not sure I'd even go with the 800 degree or high-temp rated stuff either. Yea, it may look a little better with the minor gap filled in, but I'm more on the safe side, and I really like the way it was installed.

Now, having had a few fires this season already, I can say I'm really glad it was removed. I'd also like to say that the previous posts about the marble sides acting as a "heatsink" may not be good either. I think "by touch" the marble sides are hot, no not like 500 degrees hot, but hot to the touch. It seems like about 2-3" away from the faceplate before marble sides actually feel cool again. I'll post a pix in a few days, but my camera is currently on the fritz.

Again, just posting back to the list and hopefully adding to the guru KNOWLEDGEBASE so they can help themselves and help others when newbies like me come calling

Thanks!

This discussion has definitely hepled me and added to my knowledge base. Thanks for starting the thread.

BTB