Four stove plan

[all night moe]

I may have mentioned this plan long ago somewhere here, on this site.
I Have my All Nighter in the living room. Moe will remain there. I'm going to install 2 smaller room sized stoves. One in the kitchen and one for the mudroom. I want a stove there also for quick warm ups as additional heat. Same for the kitchen. Actually all stoves will be additional heat and backup if needed.

The fourth stove is my dilemma at this point. It'll be in the parlor. Room is large and open to the stairway going up. Location is about 6' off to the side of this staircase. As @stoveliker knows, I've been lusting after a BK Princess for this spot. I like the thermostat stove and it's deep belly. Traditionally, the parlor was a room where a family would show off it's wealth. The finest furniture, the most extravagant pot belly, etc..... This leads me towards the Ashford of the BK line up, loved by @Ashful, and also with a thermostat of set it and forget it. Shallower belly but a beautiful heater. On the other hand, is my revisit of the PE lineup. When I bought my first All Nighter, I was at a mom and pop dealer store who had a Summit on the floor. It was Sunset Red with gold legs and door. Also had the sunburst gold webbing at the top of door. Beautiful stove. With @begreen 's love of his T6, I'm considering the Summit Classic LE in ivory with the nickel accents.

This leads to the discussion of cat vrs. tube stove.....again. This isn't as much concern to me as for operation of. Have experience with tube stove, but love that long slow burn of thermostat controlled BK. The mom and pop dealer guy told me to grab a BK if I ever found a good used one. He knew at the time I couldn't afford a new stove.

Comes down to how it heats in my application. With a focus on shoulder season heat and additional boost heat on fridged days, I'm a bit torn. Sorry for the dragged out post. Many of mine, as of late, are like this. It's what happens when these cold snaps set in. Not doing any of much work outside. regular work is on hold, and working on the house is slowed with the temps and limited funds. My brain goes in overdrive.

 

[stoveliker]

I would say that a T6 might be much for additional boost and shoulder season burning.
A smaller PE might work better there.

Don't kitchen and mudroom have furnace heat?
Sealing home and ducts might be more dollar efficient than 4 stoves, that need flues,.and can run away if forgotten.

That said, if you want flame in the parlor I still wouldn't go for a BK.
It's low 20s here, and my stove looks like this now. Light and glowing but no show. First half I had northern lights though.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, it sounds like the T5 would be more than adequate. That said, 4 stoves and 4 chimneys are a lot to maintain. How large is this home?

@all night moe , how large is the parlor and how open is this to the rest of the house? How well insulated is the place? If the parlor is a room separated by doorways, then it might get overheated unless small fires are burned. If you can post a sketch of the floorplan indicating doors and windows plus proposed stove locations, we can chat about options.

 

[Murray01]

My experience with BK and shoulder season is it works but works way better in the dead of winter. My biggest issue during shoulder season is the room is all ready too warm by the time you get the cat into the active zone. Smaller splits and less wood was a suggestion I read on this site but then you don’t achieve an active cat as soon as a half/quarter load. Recommended to burn it hot for 30 minutes or so to keep it relatively free of creosote buildup…room gets warm fast. Wife asks for a fire cause it cool I ask her to open a couple of windows. Don’t get me wrong, I love our BK Princess, more so in the winter than spring/fall.

 

[all night moe]

Don't kitchen and mudroom have furnace heat?

Not currently. Using a LP space heater in the kitchen now. We keep the door shut from the rest of house. Drafty as hell in there. You can't feel them but there's always plenty of fresh air. You can feel the cold "radiate'' through the floor from the crawlspace. It needs a new foundation. Will be an ICF when done. Planning on radiant floor set at 65* and the small stove for boost heat when needed. The mudroom is unfinished and needs to be torn down and rebuilt. It is freestanding and will continue to be but, floor will be heavily insulated. Same heat plan there.

if you want flame in the parlor I still wouldn't go for a BK.

That's where I'm torn. More for the aesthetics of the stove, then a flame show. I love the Princess for the deep belly. Ashford and PE for the aesthetics, although PE has more options for overall looks with a flame show. That said, we will be using the living room more than the parlor. Still, Moe will stay where he is. So, not a lot of time spent there. We use the side entrance, at the living room, much more than the parlor. That door is rarely used.

Sealing home and ducts might be more dollar efficient than 4 stoves, that need flues,.and can run away if forgotten.

That will all be changed to hydronic heat via cast iron rads and the floor heat previously mentioned. The duct work is SHOT. The previous owner was a half assed butcher of a contractor. Abandoned trunks of duct stuffed with rags, returns with plumbing blasted through them and "sealed" with tape, elongated nail holes in one origional return (they were toe nailed in), and the list goes on. Not to mention the bare ductwork in the main crawlspace loosing heat. If I insulated that, the pipes would freeze. Working on that section would be a belly crawl. Besides a hate forced air and always have. I grew up with rads and love that even radiant heat. In my hydronic conversion, a temporary solution would be to use a heat exchanger in the plenum as I switch to rads. Insulate pipes after.

I have been working on sealing up 4500sq ft of house. Fifth winter here with much to do all the way around. Wouldn't have it any other way. Love this ole farmstead.

 

[stoveliker]

Given that you have survived 5 years, I would not spend $4000 on 4 stoves and twice that on stove pipe and chimney pipe, for heat a large part of which you won't need after your other plans are done.
Keep on surviving and put that money and time into making the place better. Then when that's 85% said and done,. consider where additional heat would be useful or ambiance desired.

 

[all night moe]

Agreed, it sounds like the T5 would be more than adequate. That said, 4 stoves and 4 chimneys are a lot to maintain. How large is this home?

@all night moe , how large is the parlor and how open is this to the rest of the house? How well insulated is the place? If the parlor is a room separated by doorways, then it might get overheated unless small fires are burned. If you can post a sketch of the floorplan indicating doors and windows plus proposed stove locations, we can chat about options.

4500sq ft. house. Parlor is 20x15 with 9.5' ceilings throughout. Open to 2nd floor with large stairwell. Stairwell goes up to a foyer with 5 rooms and a hallway. Down the hallway are four more rooms and bathroom. Stove would be close to stairwell. Our bedroom is off of the palor with a door of course, and there is a door for the 1st floor hallway. Usually open. Stove location is right beside this door. Sorry, I don't know how to post sketches. T5, or similar sized, would most likely be a better fit as mentioned here.

 

[all night moe]

Given that you have survived 5 years, I would not spend $4000 on 4 stoves and twice that on stove pipe and chimney pipe, for heat a large part of which you won't need after your other plans are done.
Keep on surviving and put that money and time into making the place better. Then when that's 85% said and done,. consider where additional heat would be useful or ambiance desired.

Oh, very much agreed. One stove already exists here now. The kitchen stove will be here this spring/early summer. The other 2, parlor and mudroom, would be added down the road. Love the ambience of them. I would never have to run all 4 for heat. Not even if the power went out. A generator for the OWB would handle that. Just nice to have the options and when its bitter cold, assist the OWB to keep it from over working. Shoulder season I'd be able to run a stove or 2 for a little warm up.

 

[all night moe]

The GF, almost my wife...together almost 11yrs now, likes the Super Classic LE over the T5 and the Ashford. That narrows it down.
Just thinking out loud here in this thread. Long distance planning. LOL

I will add, the stoves in the kitchen and mudroom will be for added heat as needed. I'm to the understanding radiant floor heat takes a bit to warm up, and to cool. Don't want it at 70* then run the oven. So setting at 65* would be fine with a small stove for boost. Same for mudroom. If I come home freezing from being out all day, GF can fire up the stove for a boost. I need somewhere to shed layers full of sawdust LOL. Anther example is plans far a dog was station in that room. Our Husky has escaped once and we found him rolling around in the neighbor's Angus manure pile.

 

[begreen]

4500sq ft. house. Parlor is 20x15 with 9.5' ceilings throughout. Open to 2nd floor with large stairwell. Stairwell goes up to a foyer with 5 rooms and a hallway. Down the hallway are four more rooms and bathroom. Stove would be close to stairwell. Our bedroom is off of the palor with a door of course, and there is a door for the 1st floor hallway. Usually open. Stove location is right beside this door. Sorry, I don't know how to post sketches. T5, or similar sized, would most likely be a better fit as mentioned here.

Yes, it sounds like the T5 will work well then. The Super will also work if she likes that better. The extra mass of the Alderlea is nice for evening out the heat and releasing it after the fire has died down but inside both stoves are the same.

 

[all night moe]

The Super will also work if she likes that better. The extra mass of the Alderlea is nice for evening out the heat and releasing it after the fire has died down

Perhaps a block of soapstone, a bit undersized, placed on top of the trivet will have similar effect?

I like both stoves but we both like the color options of the Super more. The white with black legs, nickel door and trivet catches our eye. I also like the sunset red and the midnight blue. She's set on the white ....good with me.

 

[begreen]

The new midnight blue is sharp. Did she look at the T5 in white?

 

[all night moe]

The new midnight blue is sharp. Did she look at the T5 in white?

View attachment 335535

No.... that may be a game changer. PE's site only showed black, sunset red, and brown for options.
That T5 in white is sharp. i like that a bit more than the Super with the options I listed.
Wow....thank you.

 

[all night moe]

The new midnight blue is sharp. Did she look at the T5 in white?

View attachment 335535

Been reading on and off all day, cruising the PE sub forum.
Is the T5 a N/S loader?

 

[Todd]

Been reading on and off all day, cruising the PE sub forum.
Is the T5 a N/S loader?

Yes

 

[EbS-P]

Wood furnace or boiler or a mini split is not an option? Two stoves and making coffee is all I can handle.

 

[all night moe]

Wood furnace or boiler or a mini split is not an option? Two stoves and making coffee is all I can handle.

I have a wood furnace in use now. Read through the thread, it will answer your questions.
A mini split would be like trying to heat a 1850 4500sq ft farmhouse with a box of matches. The 24''x24''x4' deep furnace's firebox can barely handle these cold snaps and, it doesn't do it well. Again posts above explain.

I will mention again, I have despized forced hot air since my introduction to it 30yrs ago. I grew up with radiant hydronics.

 

[Ashful]

Wood furnace or boiler or a mini split is not an option? Two stoves and making coffee is all I can handle.

I think Moe is considering these additional stoves for less-continuous use. Agreed, four stoves would be a bit much to feed, if you're doing it every day, let alone multiple times per day. But for special occasions or those few blistering cold days each year, I honestly wish we had 4 or 5 stoves in this house.

As to Princess vs. Ashford vs. PE T5, they all seem to be great options, depending on your priorities. Princess is going to win on pure utility, if loading once per day for long burn times is your goal. T5 will win if fast max-BTU output is your goal, and it's a heck of a lot nicer looking than any Princess. I see the Ashford 30 as the compromise between the two, a pretty good heater with a wide range of output, but much nicer looking than the Princess.

As an aside to the max output thing, there's been a lot of debate on max output from BK's, and I've even seen @BKVP post some numbers on these forums that I think are too modest. I can fit roughly 700k-800k BTU of oak into one of my Ashford 30's, and rip that down to dust in less than 6 hours, so we know the average consumption is roughly 125k BTU. Moreover, I would bet that more than half the total mass is gone in the first 2 hours, and probably 80% is gone in 4 hours, putting the consumption during at least the first few hours closer to 180k to 190k BTU. Multiply by your best guess of efficiency at these very high burn rates (78 - 82%?), to get output from consumption.

The trouble here is that I suspect BK probably does most or all of their testing on woods having much lower specific gravity / BTU content.

 

[all night moe]

Thank you @Ashful . Your comment to my wants/needs hit the nail on the head.

For additional heating, on the cold snaps, and shoulder warm ups without firing up the future OWB, fast/max BTU output is not needed. Another factor I looked into last night, PE dealer is an hour and a half away or better. BK dealer is just over half hour.

@BKVP I wish the Ashford was available with a couple more color options. Ivory, midnight blue, or a dark red come to mind.
Possibly BK may add some to the line up .....by the time I'm ready.

On another note, a few weeks ago I spotted a VC Intrepid on FB MP. In red with the warming shelves. Pretty stove but looked like it was on fire, without the fire. Now that's to red LOL

 

[Todd]

As far as the two smaller room stoves go I’d look at the Jotul 602, Morso 2b or Drolet Spark II. They are all small foot print highly radiant quick warm up stoves.

 

[all night moe]

I have a Jotul original #3 in the works. Should be grabbing that this spring. Gonna use that in the kitchen until I rebuild our adjacent mudroom. Will be relocating that there after. Kitchen plan is for a n Elm stove. Classic and fits the bill of the ole kitchen farmhouse theme.
Either the 18'' or 24'' version. Leaning for 24'' with slightly longer burns. Yes, I know, an expensive stove .....

 

[all night moe]

Gee, if I relocate Moe to my future shop, I could grab a T5 for the living room.
What am I doing to myself.
I hope it warms up outside today soon. Cabin fever setting in. LOL

 

[begreen]

Been reading on and off all day, cruising the PE sub forum.
Is the T5 a N/S loader?

Yes, same square firebox as the Super.

 

[begreen]

I wish the Ashford was available with a couple more color options. Ivory, midnight blue, or a dark red come to mind.
Possibly BK may add some to the line up .....by the time I'm ready.

BK showed an Ashford 30 in a really nice dark grey blue, similar to Jotul's blue black enamel one year at a show. I loved it and almost bought it on sight, but BKVP didn't like it, so the T6 remains on duty. That's turned out the best for us. We use the trivet top option often for both indirect cooking and dough rising, and direct on the stove top for heating the morning coffee water.

 

[all night moe]

Not including 4 baths and a laundry room, there's 14 rooms in this house. guess I have room for more stoves...LOL

Seriously, A bit torn between an Ashford or T5. Thankfully I have time on my side with the OWB setup taking priority.