Fire viewing surprise.

[DaveNY49]

I hope everyone is having a good weekend.

The two stoves I just installed are both older brands that came with screens for fire viewing options. They were old and rusty. The screen that came with my Teddy bear was actually a screen made for a grandma bear and I sold it to someone who needed one, the screen for the Bullard I scrapped. I hadn’t had any intention on viewing the fire, due to this I also did not install a flue damper. I’ve had great success controlling the fire and draft with the draft wheels and baffle.

Last night I actually decided to open the doors for awhile to watch the fire. My goal was to sit a d watch the fire and if I enjoyed it enough I’d go find some sort of screens for my stoves AND install the dampers. I have a very large hearth so I wasn’t concerned with sparks for now and I was going to be sitting right by the stove to keep an eye on it. I kept my laser thermometer in hand to check the stack as I was under the impression the flue would get very hot very fast with all of the air coming through when the doors were open. I was also expecting poor distribution of heat as I’d heard having the doors open wouldn’t heat the stove up enough to provide adequate heat to move around to heat the home.

I was surprised to find it was the exact opposite. 5 mins into having both doors fully open the flue temps came down and the room I was in grew warmer. Much warmer! I’d always heard how inefficient fireplaces were. Now, I’m not sure about how efficient the burn of the load of wood I had in the stove was. But, I know that having the doors open heated the room and surrounding rooms much faster and I didn’t have to worry about high flue temps or a run away stove. While I don’t plan to operate my stove like this a lot I do see how taking the chill out of the room while having a drink and watching the fire would be handy. And although Fisher and Bullard state that a damper should be used when having the doors open I honestly don’t feel this is a must. I could see more smoke and even carbon monoxide levels growing with a damper shut and the doors open. I could be wrong. And while I love Fisher I’m now seeing possibly some mistakes they made with their recommendations. Needing a damper being one and recommending that coal could be burned in their wood burning stoves. know this site is filled with not only long time wood stove users but also smart people. But, I thought I’d share my surprisingly experience with this. I did hear something interesting from someone awhile ago. They stated that if you have a run away stove that opening the doors actually brings it down. The damper may be an insurance related feature in which case if you need to appeese the insurance company installing one would be wise. I don’t have insurance and am not a big fan of it personally.

To each his own but if anyone out there doesn’t have a pipe damper and wants to open the doors don’t be afraid to. As long as it’s not for a long time and you are home. But again, I’m confident most here know this.

Everyone enjoy your weekend!

 

[bholler]

I hope everyone is having a good weekend.

The two stoves I just installed are both older brands that came with screens for fire viewing options. They were old and rusty. The screen that came with my Teddy bear was actually a screen made for a grandma bear and I sold it to someone who needed one, the screen for the Bullard I scrapped. I hadn’t had any intention on viewing the fire, due to this I also did not install a flue damper. I’ve had great success controlling the fire and draft with the draft wheels and baffle.

Last night I actually decided to open the doors for awhile to watch the fire. My goal was to sit a d watch the fire and if I enjoyed it enough I’d go find some sort of screens for my stoves AND install the dampers. I have a very large hearth so I wasn’t concerned with sparks for now and I was going to be sitting right by the stove to keep an eye on it. I kept my laser thermometer in hand to check the stack as I was under the impression the flue would get very hot very fast with all of the air coming through when the doors were open. I was also expecting poor distribution of heat as I’d heard having the doors open wouldn’t heat the stove up enough to provide adequate heat to move around to heat the home.

I was surprised to find it was the exact opposite. 5 mins into having both doors fully open the flue temps came down and the room I was in grew warmer. Much warmer! I’d always heard how inefficient fireplaces were. Now, I’m not sure about how efficient the burn of the load of wood I had in the stove was. But, I know that having the doors open heated the room and surrounding rooms much faster and I didn’t have to worry about high flue temps or a run away stove. While I don’t plan to operate my stove like this a lot I do see how taking the chill out of the room while having a drink and watching the fire would be handy. And although Fisher and Bullard state that a damper should be used when having the doors open I honestly don’t feel this is a must. I could see more smoke and even carbon monoxide levels growing with a damper shut and the doors open. I could be wrong. And while I love Fisher I’m now seeing possibly some mistakes they made with their recommendations. Needing a damper being one and recommending that coal could be burned in their wood burning stoves. know this site is filled with not only long time wood stove users but also smart people. But, I thought I’d share my surprisingly experience with this. I did hear something interesting from someone awhile ago. They stated that if you have a run away stove that opening the doors actually brings it down. The damper may be an insurance related feature in which case if you need to appeese the insurance company installing one would be wise. I don’t have insurance and am not a big fan of it personally.

To each his own but if anyone out there doesn’t have a pipe damper and wants to open the doors don’t be afraid to. As long as it’s not for a long time and you are home. But again, I’m confident most here know this.

Everyone enjoy your weekend!

Don't forget you are running your stoves on short chimneys. If they were taller the draft would be much much higher and a damper may be more needed

 

[DaveNY49]

Don't forget you are running your stoves on short chimneys. If they were taller the draft would be much much higher and a damper may be more needed

I increased my stack length. I had heard it was better draft so I went out, bought more pipe. Took them from 8 feet to 20. And then noticed no difference in anything. This week I’m removing the extra pipe and selling it taking my stack down to 8. Hopefully I get close to what I paid for all that chimney.

 

[bholler]

I increased my stack length. I had heard it was better draft so I went out, bought more pipe. Took them from 8 feet to 20. And then noticed no difference in anything. This week I’m removing the extra pipe and selling it taking my stack down to 8. Hopefully I get close to what I paid for all that chimney.

You added 12' of freestanding chimney?

 

[stoveliker]

I believe that fireplace chimneys are often cooler than stove chimneys. Why? Because the total volume of (cool = room temp) air rushing up through the chimney is much larger. Hence it dilutes the hot gases from the fire, and the chimney temperature goes down.

 

[DaveNY49]

You added 12' of freestanding chimney?

Correct. I originally had 8 feet total on each stove. And had great success with that. But I unfortunately did the ol’ (let others talk me into it). Was hearing a lot of guys on here and in some other fb wood stove groups I’m in claim 15 feet is the minimum and somehow a stove and stack won’t operate as well with any less. So, like a dummy I decided to make it 15 and added another 5. Bought all the pipe, installed it, braced it and had fires for a week. Literally nothing changed. No better and no worse. So I kicked myself in the but, vowed to never change anything if it’s not broke, and took it all down back to the 8 feet. And have someone coming Monday to buy the chimney. Live and learn I suppose. These stacks go straight up through roofs. My previous stacks went through walls with a total of 2 90s per stove and actually only went a foot above my roof. And I had great operating success with them. Even with winds. One day we had 45 mph winds and they worked great. AND they were single wall inside and out (except for an insulated pipe and thimble). This year I went with doubke wall outside. For some reason I’ve always done well with short stacks. Not sure if it’s my location or what.

 

[bholler]

Correct. I originally had 8 feet total on each stove. And had great success with that. But I unfortunately did the ol’ (let others talk me into it). Was hearing a lot of guys on here and in some other fb wood stove groups I’m in claim 15 feet is the minimum and somehow a stove and stack won’t operate as well with any less. So, like a dummy I decided to make it 15 and added another 5. Bought all the pipe, installed it, braced it and had fires for a week. Literally nothing changed. No better and no worse. So I kicked myself in the but, vowed to never change anything if it’s not broke, and took it all down back to the 8 feet. And have someone coming Monday to buy the chimney. Live and learn I suppose. These stacks go straight up through roofs. My previous stacks went through walls with a total of 2 90s per stove and actually only went a foot above my roof. And I had great operating success with them. Even with winds. One day we had 45 mph winds and they worked great. AND they were single wall inside and out (except for an insulated pipe and thimble). This year I went with doubke wall outside. For some reason I’ve always done well with short stacks. Not sure if it’s my location or what.

Yeah with your primative stoves there really isn't a minimum. You are definitely going to have less draft. But it will work

 

[DaveNY49]

Yeah with your primative stoves there really isn't a minimum. You are definitely going to have less draft. But it will work

Last year I had an older Huntsman, a Barrel stove and a Lopi. The Lopo actually had a 6 foot stack. It always drew fine but I didn’t care for it. So I sold it. And I promised myself I’d stick with stoves from the 70s and 80s. I had a friend from TX who lost a family member a few years back when they got those extreme rare freezing temps and had no power for weeks. He actually had a stove installed in his home. If my memory is correct I believe it was a Blaze King. He didn’t have a lot of wood on hand because with the weather he seldom used it and the storm hit and he used uo his wood fast. While running it he had to use it without the blower since he had no power for weeks. And the only wood he was able to get was not seasoned and he said burning the wood damaged the converter somehow. Anyway. He ended up selling the blaze king and actually moved to Montana. Built an A frame home and drove three states away to buy a Fisher XL. He said to me “now, if I don’t have power I’m ok, I don’t have any parts on my stove that wear out or break, and if society gets bad enough and I have to use wood that’s wet to cook with it’s not going to damage my stove”
As he was telling me this I realized that’s how I was approaching my wood burning. Older, well made, built like a tank stoves that require no power and have no running parts that are delicate or break.

A friend of mine who’s an engineer for a motor and power supply company told me Americas history with items. He’s originally from England and said for something to be considered an antique over there it has to be over 100 or more years old. But in the USA something as young as 20 years old can be considered an antique, outdated, or as you stated “primitive”.

As we move further ahead society is beginning to see how much better made older things were. We definitely see it in automobiles. I can’t help but notice it appears to apply to wood stoves aswell. I just bought a large home on 150 acres. Of all the stoves I had the budget for I went with a Fisher XL. It’s in storage. I’ll use it to heat the home with. These older stoves have really proved themselves time after time. I belong to a Fisher wood stove group on FB. The amount of people seeking out and buying these older stoves in incredible

 

[bholler]

Last year I had an older Huntsman, a Barrel stove and a Lopi. The Lopo actually had a 6 foot stack. It always drew fine but I didn’t care for it. So I sold it. And I promised myself I’d stick with stoves from the 70s and 80s. I had a friend from TX who lost a family member a few years back when they got those extreme rare freezing temps and had no power for weeks. He actually had a stove installed in his home. If my memory is correct I believe it was a Blaze King. He didn’t have a lot of wood on hand because with the weather he seldom used it and the storm hit and he used uo his wood fast. While running it he had to use it without the blower since he had no power for weeks. And the only wood he was able to get was not seasoned and he said burning the wood damaged the converter somehow. Anyway. He ended up selling the blaze king and actually moved to Montana. Built an A frame home and drove three states away to buy a Fisher XL. He said to me “now, if I don’t have power I’m ok, I don’t have any parts on my stove that wear out or break, and if society gets bad enough and I have to use wood that’s wet to cook with it’s not going to damage my stove”
As he was telling me this I realized that’s how I was approaching my wood burning. Older, well made, built like a tank stoves that require no power and have no running parts that are delicate or break.

A friend of mine who’s an engineer for a motor and power supply company told me Americas history with items. He’s originally from England and said for something to be considered an antique over there it has to be over 100 or more years old. But in the USA something as young as 20 years old can be considered an antique, outdated, or as you stated “primitive”.

As we move further ahead society is beginning to see how much better made older things were. We definitely see it in automobiles. I can’t help but notice it appears to apply to wood stoves aswell. I just bought a large home on 150 acres. Of all the stoves I had the budget for I went with a Fisher XL. It’s in storage. I’ll use it to heat the home with. These older stoves have really proved themselves time after time. I belong to a Fisher wood stove group on FB. The amount of people seeking out and buying these older stoves in incredible

Well that was a bunch of nonsense. Your blaming the stove for your friend being completely unprepared to use his stove. I have run dozens of different stoves in my house and there is absolutely no way I would ever go back to heating my home with a pre epa stove. If you don't want a cat stove don't get one there are plenty of non cats that work very well. And absolutely no stove works properly with wet wood. Because water doesn't burn. You just don't notice it with old stoves as much because their base level of performance is already pretty low. Btw 20 years is not antique here. That would be considered classic. And regardless the stoves you are talking about are 40 years old now not 20. And there is not a single woodstove on the market that requires a blower to operate. In a case like the Blaze King if he had just pulled out the damaged cat it would work exactly like a stove from the 70s or 80s and wouldn't damage a thing.

 

[BKVP]

Well that was a bunch of nonsense. Your blaming the stove for your friend being completely unprepared to use his stove. I have run dozens of different stoves in my house and there is absolutely no way I would ever go back to heating my home with a pre epa stove. If you don't want a cat stove don't get one there are plenty of non cats that work very well. And absolutely no stove works properly with wet wood. Because water doesn't burn. You just don't notice it with old stoves as much because their base level of performance is already pretty low. Btw 20 years is not antique here. That would be considered classic. And regardless the stoves you are talking about are 40 years old now not 20. And there is not a single woodstove on the market that requires a blower to operate. In a case like the Blaze King if he had just pulled out the damaged cat it would work exactly like a stove from the 70s or 80s and wouldn't damage a thing.

And that would be a big mistake! The chimney would need cleaning vastly more often. It is also illegal to not install and operate a wood heater in keeping with the Owner's Manual.

BKVP

 

[bholler]

And that would be a big mistake! The chimney would need cleaning vastly more often. It is also illegal to not install and operate a wood heater in keeping with the Owner's Manual.

BKVP

Yes of course I would never recommend it under normal circumstances. But the guy is blaming a death on a failed cat. If my choice was pull the cat for a week to make the stove draft or freeze to death I'm pulling the cat. But regardless I wouldn't have the issue because I am prepared to use my stove.

Btw about half of the older cat stoves i work on have no cat in them anymore. People just don't replace them.