fire extinguisher advice

[RustyShackleford]

This seems like a really important topic for us, but a forum search doesn't reveal much ...

My fire extinguisher is getting a little long in the tooth. Being honest, I'll say it's about 20 years old and I've never had it inspected or recharged. It appears in good condition, has been well-treated, and the pressure gauge reads in the normal/green zone. It is fairly big one (not the toy-looking homeowner size), a Pemall PA100T (says it's Type A Size II, Type B:C Size I).

Should I even bother trying to get it serviced ? I called some fire safety places (in the yellow pages), and they hinted it'd probably be cheaper to replace it. So I'm also looking for advice on what to buy and where to buy it. Thanks !

 

[firefighterjake]

If it's still showing pressure I would keep it . . . and not bother getting it serviced . . . the thing that would kill you is the cost to hydro-test (pressure test) it . . .

ABC dry chemical . . . go with one with a metal head/handle . . . some of the cheaper department store extinguishers with these types of heads cannot be recharged . . . best place to look for something like this if you're looking for quality and not cost is a place that sells welding equipment, fire extinguisher dealer, pressurized gas dealers, etc. . . . if you elect to go the cheap route (and this is viable -- you can get a lot of cheaper "throw-away units" for the same price as one quality unit) any hardware or department store would suffice.

As you might guess . . . being a guy . . . we tend to believe bigger is better . . . which is usually true in the fire extinguisher world.

 

[SteveKG]

Once I figured an old extinguisher I have needed to be emptied and recharged, for no real reason except it occurred to me. I dishcharged it, and it cost me more to refill than it cost to buy a brand new one.

Places like Costco sell some decent ones [rechargeable] for around $40.

 

[velvetfoot]

Along with some ABC extinguishers we have a shiny water model propelled by compressed air. It's pretty big and can shoot a stream of water pretty far and is easily rechargeable.

 

[remkel]

Yes, the hydro test would be where the significant cost is.

I would also recommend replacing it. ABC is probably your best bet as it will adress three classes of fire: combustibles, electrical and flammable liquids. It is the more versitile of the extinguishers. I may be wrong with this, but I think should there be a problem with your stove when it is up to temperature and you spray water onto it you may cool it down too quickly and cause significant damage to the stove (not that this would be the first thought on your mind when extinguishing the fire).

You can either look at fire protection companies who will sell more of a "commercial" fire extinguisher or buy one from the local hardware.

Good luck with your hunt.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If it's still showing pressure I would keep it . . . and not bother getting it serviced . . . the thing that would kill you is the cost to hydro-test (pressure test) it . . .

Yeah, it looks fine, I just worried maybe somehow the gauge could be stuck in the OK position - although I tried rapping on it with my knuckles and it stays put.

Would it make any sense to partially discharge it to see what happens, or is it likely it won't shut off and then I have to get it refilled ?

If they recharge it, which doesn't sound too expensive, why would it need pressure-testing, if the gauge reading stays put ?

Thanks.

 

[fishingpol]

If it's still showing pressure I would keep it . . . and not bother getting it serviced . . . the thing that would kill you is the cost to hydro-test (pressure test) it . . .

Yeah, it looks fine, I just worried maybe somehow the gauge could be stuck in the OK position - although I tried rapping on it with my knuckles and it stays put.

Would it make any sense to partially discharge it to see what happens, or is it likely it won't shut off and then I have to get it refilled ?

If they recharge it, which doesn't sound too expensive, why would it need pressure-testing, if the gauge reading stays put ?

Thanks.

If you partially discharge it, the valve may not seat properly and result in a leak and eventual discharge.

Pressure testing is usually required every six years or so by some jurisdictions to check the safety, integrity and durability of the cylinder. The cylinder is pressurized over its' operating pressure by a certain ratio to see if there are any defects.

On a quick sidenote- Where I work, we have a service cart with a small fire extinguisher mounted near the back of it. The guy that works with me threw a broken chair into the back of the cart and unknowingly broke the head off the extinguisher. All I heard was "Oh, S***!" and looked out to see a plume of whitish dust from the extinguisher shoot into the air and land on all of our vehicles. He washed everything down that day. Pretty funny though.

 

[remkel]

One other quick note- if it is a chemical extinguisher you should invert it every so often to stir the chemical.

 

[pastera]

Should you be able to feel the chemical move when inverting it? I have one that came with the house don't know it's age but the house was built in 95. When turning it you can't feel any weight shift so I was wondering if the chemical was caked up at the bottom

I am in the process of installing small ABC extinguishers in each bedroom so I may just take the old unit out back and have the kids put put a small brush fire for training.
The wife doesn't like the looks of them out in the open but the layout of the house puts the kids at risk. The ability to get 10' to their bathroom would allow them to get onto a roof then down onto the deck (8').

Aaron

 

[kevin j]

I have a couple stainless steel pressurixed water ones bought at a school auction. Those are for the wood stove, as water is the best for solid fuel burning. I keep one each direction towards the front or back door so a fire would never be between me and the door. I also keep a good sized dry powder near each PW one. Along with dry powders in kitchen, most bedrooms, garage, shop, on floor ahead of front seat of each vehicle, etc etc. Having had close calls in others and my life, I figure it is cheap insurance. When they get old, I used them for training and let the kids blow off on a small backyard fire. Good life training.

My parents had one fall from the high wall beracket, break off the head, and powder through two rooms.............

k

 

[firefighterjake]

If it's still showing pressure I would keep it . . . and not bother getting it serviced . . . the thing that would kill you is the cost to hydro-test (pressure test) it . . .

Yeah, it looks fine, I just worried maybe somehow the gauge could be stuck in the OK position - although I tried rapping on it with my knuckles and it stays put. I wouldn't worry too much . . . in general I tell folks that they can expect a fire extinguisher kept inside in an area not exposed to freezing temps to easily stay charged 8-12 years. If in doubt, purchase another . . . it is possible that the gauge could be stuck . . . or it simply might just have a good seal.

Would it make any sense to partially discharge it to see what happens, or is it likely it won't shut off and then I have to get it refilled ? Most definitely do not attempt to partially discharge it . . . once you crack that seal 9 times out of 10 the remaining nitrogen will leak pass the valve stem and then you will have to get it recharged and refilled.

If they recharge it, which doesn't sound too expensive, why would it need pressure-testing, if the gauge reading stays put ? Regulations . . . it varies by the type and I'm too lazy to look it up, but per NFPA every 6 or 7 years the extinguisher has to be hydrotested to make sure it will hold the pressure and not rupture . . . as you can imagine having extinguishers blow up on people would be a bad thing.

Thanks.

 

[firefighterjake]

One other quick note- if it is a chemical extinguisher you should invert it every so often to stir the chemical.

Good point . . . I like to do this and then just take my hand and rap the side of the cylinder a couple of times until I can feel the powder loosening up and dropping down . . .

The reason for this is like that box of baking soda at home . . . if you don't use it for a while and let it sit and then go to dump some baking soda out it may come out in big chunks or a big ol' rectangle . . . similar thing happens to the powder in the extinguisher . . . it can cake up and then when you go to use it on a fire you may not get all the powder to come out if it's in a big ol' chunk. Thanks for mentioning this Remkel.

 

[firefighterjake]

Should you be able to feel the chemical move when inverting it? Yes . . . ideally when you tip it over you should feel the powder inside easily fall or shift in the same way flour in a tupperware container would move. If you do not feel anything moving there is a good chance it may be caked . . . in which case you may get some powder to come out . . . but a good portion may stay inside the extinguisher. I have one that came with the house don't know it's age but the house was built in 95. When turning it you can't feel any weight shift so I was wondering if the chemical was caked up at the bottom

I am in the process of installing small ABC extinguishers in each bedroom so I may just take the old unit out back and have the kids put put a small brush fire for training. Not a bad idea . . . just remember you don't necessarily have to use it on an actual fire . . . and you should teach the children to first get out and stay out . . . also remind them to not fight a fire if it is bigger than them, avoid breathing the smoke as it is the smoke that kills and that the extinguisher is a tool of last resort . . . teach them how to use it . . . pulling the pin, aiming low, squeezing the handle and sweeping slowly side to side . . . start out at around 10-12 feet and get closer as the fire is extinguished . . . if the fire does not go out, get out . . . and close the door to trap the fire and smoke . . . finally, it's not like baseball -- you don't get three attempts before you strike out -- you get one shot to put out the fire -- if the fire continues to burn you do not grab a second extinguisher because by the time you return to the area the fire is usually as big if not bigger.

The wife doesn't like the looks of them out in the open but the layout of the house puts the kids at risk. The ability to get 10' to their bathroom would allow them to get onto a roof then down onto the deck (8'). Sometimes spouses are like that . . . which is why our extinguishers are out of sight, but strategically located in various closets and cupboards throughout the house . . . and both her and I know where they are . . . and that's the real key . . . knowing where they are in an emergency without having to move a bunch of stuff to find them. Aaron

 

[Boozie]

Should an ABC extinguisher be turned upside down occasionally also? "Good for 8 - 12 yrs" ..... I have some from 1980's ..... any good? Also, if one was to have a fire in or around wood stove insert, what would be proper protocol for extinguisher use?

Thanks, Barb

 

[firefighterjake]

Should an ABC extinguisher be turned upside down occasionally also? "Good for 8 - 12 yrs" ..... I have some from 1980's ..... any good? Also, if one was to have a fire in or around wood stove insert, what would be proper protocol for extinguisher use?

Thanks, Barb

Yes . . . ABC extinguishers most typically have dry powder in them . . . so turning them over is useful.

1980s . . . my own advice . . . keep 'em if the gauge indicates they are charged . . . but I might buy a newer one to keep around as my "go to" extinguisher since the older ones may or may not work . . . and the time to "test" them is not when you are attempting to fight a fire.

Use . . . quite honestly . . . I'm not sure I would use an extinguisher on a woodstove or insert fire . . . the one time I had one of those "oh crap" moments I just waited things out, watched the temps, used a fan to cool down things . . . and realized after the fact that I could have killed the fire by blocking off the air inlet in the back of the stove with a simple piece of aluminum foil . . . so after realizing that I should have taken the time before to see where the air inlet was and knowing that this has only happened once in the three years I've been using my stove and knowing that the reason for this was due to me being stupid and reloading mid-cycle I don't worry about a fire in my stove.

As for a chimney fire . . . again . . . I don't worry since I burn well seasoned wood and check and clean my stove frequently . . . however . . . if I had a chimney fire I would either use the extinguisher by shooting it up from a clean-out or from the top down the chimney . . . blasting it into the stove might kill the fire in the stove, but I'm not sure it would stop a fire in the chimney once the fire started since I doubt much of the powder would wind its way around the baffle and up through the stove pipe to the flue . . . at least with my set up.

Of course this is just one dumb Maine firefighter's opinion.

 

[holland_patrick]

I agree with not firing it off.. and inverting it...

I have one it's a small one and i got it in silver not the normal red...

it's a nice safety thing to have but jake is right you can't count on it 100% you should use your burning knowledge first then then if all else fails and you need to reach for it use it and get out... to me it's the last thing i would use before calling the local FD..



Patrick
Local 1739
Ridgefield CT FD

 

[firefighterjake]

I agree with not firing it off.. and inverting it...

I have one it's a small one and i got it in silver not the normal red...

it's a nice safety thing to have but jake is right you can't count on it 100% you should use your burning knowledge first then then if all else fails and you need to reach for it use it and get out... to me it's the last thing i would use before calling the local FD..



Patrick
Local 1739
Ridgefield CT FD

Local 772 here in Bangor Patrick.

 

[peakbagger]

I talked to fire extinguisher tech once and he advocated inverting and shaling the extinguisher a couple of times once a year. The majority of the fire extinguishers have plastic valves and its not worth it to test them.

A friend gave me a stainless steel water extinguisher that is charged with air. When I worked in a plant, all of the welders and firewatch folks used these as they were easy to recharge and were good for wetting down areas.

Using a dry chemical unit anywhere indoors is a real PITA to clean up and generally if they are used on engine fires, the engine is trashed from the powder caking up in the engine.

 

[remkel]

Should an ABC extinguisher be turned upside down occasionally also? "Good for 8 - 12 yrs" ..... I have some from 1980's ..... any good? Also, if one was to have a fire in or around wood stove insert, what would be proper protocol for extinguisher use?

Thanks, Barb

Yes . . . ABC extinguishers most typically have dry powder in them . . . so turning them over is useful.

1980s . . . my own advice . . . keep 'em if the gauge indicates they are charged . . . but I might buy a newer one to keep around as my "go to" extinguisher since the older ones may or may not work . . . and the time to "test" them is not when you are attempting to fight a fire.

Use . . . quite honestly . . . I'm not sure I would use an extinguisher on a woodstove or insert fire . . . the one time I had one of those "oh crap" moments I just waited things out, watched the temps, used a fan to cool down things . . . and realized after the fact that I could have killed the fire by blocking off the air inlet in the back of the stove with a simple piece of aluminum foil . . . so after realizing that I should have taken the time before to see where the air inlet was and knowing that this has only happened once in the three years I've been using my stove and knowing that the reason for this was due to me being stupid and reloading mid-cycle I don't worry about a fire in my stove.

As for a chimney fire . . . again . . . I don't worry since I burn well seasoned wood and check and clean my stove frequently . . . however . . . if I had a chimney fire I would either use the extinguisher by shooting it up from a clean-out or from the top down the chimney . . . blasting it into the stove might kill the fire in the stove, but I'm not sure it would stop a fire in the chimney once the fire started since I doubt much of the powder would wind its way around the baffle and up through the stove pipe to the flue . . . at least with my set up.

Of course this is just one dumb Maine firefighter's opinion.

I don't think I would recommend your method for fighting a chimney fire. Opening the cleanout door would only provide a huge amount of air to the fire and feed it further (neighbor had this experience). I would most likely recommend shutting down all air supply to the stove and keep the cleanout door CLOSED! Plus I do not think an extinguisher would be able to put out a good chimney fire IMHO

 

[CTYank]

If you're going to buy a new one, be sure to check the rating, and note that many ABC extinguishers have a much lower rating for type A (solids) than others.

I'd compare ratings of candidate extinguishers for type A. (Extinguishing agent is key here.)

 

[firefighterjake]

Should an ABC extinguisher be turned upside down occasionally also? "Good for 8 - 12 yrs" ..... I have some from 1980's ..... any good? Also, if one was to have a fire in or around wood stove insert, what would be proper protocol for extinguisher use?

Thanks, Barb

Yes . . . ABC extinguishers most typically have dry powder in them . . . so turning them over is useful.

1980s . . . my own advice . . . keep 'em if the gauge indicates they are charged . . . but I might buy a newer one to keep around as my "go to" extinguisher since the older ones may or may not work . . . and the time to "test" them is not when you are attempting to fight a fire.

Use . . . quite honestly . . . I'm not sure I would use an extinguisher on a woodstove or insert fire . . . the one time I had one of those "oh crap" moments I just waited things out, watched the temps, used a fan to cool down things . . . and realized after the fact that I could have killed the fire by blocking off the air inlet in the back of the stove with a simple piece of aluminum foil . . . so after realizing that I should have taken the time before to see where the air inlet was and knowing that this has only happened once in the three years I've been using my stove and knowing that the reason for this was due to me being stupid and reloading mid-cycle I don't worry about a fire in my stove.

As for a chimney fire . . . again . . . I don't worry since I burn well seasoned wood and check and clean my stove frequently . . . however . . . if I had a chimney fire I would either use the extinguisher by shooting it up from a clean-out or from the top down the chimney . . . blasting it into the stove might kill the fire in the stove, but I'm not sure it would stop a fire in the chimney once the fire started since I doubt much of the powder would wind its way around the baffle and up through the stove pipe to the flue . . . at least with my set up.

Of course this is just one dumb Maine firefighter's opinion.

I don't think I would recommend your method for fighting a chimney fire. Opening the cleanout door would only provide a huge amount of air to the fire and feed it further (neighbor had this experience). I would most likely recommend shutting down all air supply to the stove and keep the cleanout door CLOSED! Plus I do not think an extinguisher would be able to put out a good chimney fire IMHO

It works . . . I mean it's not like I'm spending all kinds of time with the clean out open . . . then again what I've found works even better for folks who have a woodstove hooked up to a tile lined chimney (and around here it seems as though almost all the chimney fires we get are folks with these older style hook-ups) is to simply open the clean out and 9 times out of 10 there are some glowing embers or hot creosote remains at the base . . . we just put a bit of water on the hot ember (maybe half a cup) . . . water turns to steam . . . steam expands and rises on the draft . . . fire is put out . . . truthfully . . . this is the first thing we do since it works well and water is cheap.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My main concern is NOT putting out a chimney fire. My chimney stays too clean, and the Blaze King is too perfect to EVER do anything as rude as catching on fire

It's simply waking up in the middle of the night and the house is on fire, for whatever reason. I am a good way from any fire station, and served by a volunteer fire department at that, so I imagine I'm pretty much on my own as far as possibly saving the house.