Fine tuning estimate on cost of installing insert

[Cath]

I think this question is best addressed to Elk. The guesstimate I have right now is "a lot" ($1,000 to $1,500?); DH would like me to refine that. I know the price of steel has gone up dramatically. That's the one reason I could be kicking myself for not getting the Morgan 2 years ago, the savings on the flue/liner would probably be substantial. But I'm not usually a coulda, shoulda, woulda kind of gal. I make the best decision I can at the time and move on.

DH cleaned the fireplace and chimney last year or the year before. I believe he actually got up on the roof. I trust him to do a job like this as well or better than any lay person. Having said that, since it's the last opportunity to do a thorough job before lining it, I would like the insurance of having a professional do it. The words "better safe than sorry" come to mind.

I don't know exactly how tall the chimney is except to say it's probably what you would expect on a 1947 smallish 1 2/3rd story cape with the furnace in the basement. We'll need a mantle shield as well since our mantle is wood and the distance from the opening and brick trim around the opening is not that great. I'd appreciate any suggestions on an affordable attractive option; one potential problem is that the mantle is painted off white.

What would the ballpark estimate be for everything except the insert? If we went with a stove and put it in front of the fireplace would there be any other "incidentals" to consider. I've seen this type of set up on some Mfr websites and it looks like the opening is covered (don't know the technical term) presumably to keep all the heat from going up the chimney. Obviously that needs to be non-combustible.

DH asked me about this when I mentioned going to see the VC. I should have had an answer for him but I figured that whatever insert you put in there the cost wouldn't vary and we'd need to do most of this just to start using the fireplace for a plain old fire anyway. So, now I'm bracing myself for the sticker shock.

As I've mentioned previously DH is very handy but I'm not sure I want to try and save anything on labor by trying to make this a DIY project. If nothing else I don't like the idea of him up on the roof. Not that I could stop him if he really put his mind to it. Is it early enough in the season that I might get a break on labor if I shopped around for someone to do the cleaning and installation?
~Cath

 

[elkimmeg]

Sorry I know I throw a monkey wrench in all your plans. I want you to be real inqusitive about the winter warm. Ask why they did not use the cat combustor? look real close at the plates and floor for warpage. There is an inherant design flaw with the winter warms, too many plates comprise the front goor gasket fitting. That's righ folks not every Vc product is endorsed by me.

Many dealers were instructed to grind off the higher areas or remove the gasket and pad it out in the lower contact points. This is a case where VC over engineered the product.

Come next spring VC is comming out with an entire new line of inserts and dropping the winter warn's production. They know they have had problems. Just ask Mo Heat, our moderator, about his trials and experiences with his. When the gasket does not fit right or create a decent seal air escapes and causes these stoves to overfire. Again many were ok from the factory and worked well. It is up to the purcheser to determine if this is one that is ok. Look for whitish coloring on the upper half of the stove, one sign of over firing. The brighter white the more it has been overfired. Look for warped grill inside the stove or bottom grate. I am real puzzled why one would take out the cat and run a new stove that way? To me something does not add up. The cat is what makes that stove preform, burn longer, controled burning, and cleaner. Something is not right. It could be as simple as an idiot opperator.. This needs more investigation and questions need to be asked and answered.

 

[Cath]

Sorry I know I throw a monkey wrench in all your plans. I want you to be real inqusitive about the winter warm. Ask why they did not use the cat combustor? look real close at the plates and floor for warpage. There is an inherant design flaw with the winter warms, too many plates comprise the front goor gasket fitting. That's righ folks not every Vc product is endorsed by me.

Many dealers were instructed to grind off the higher areas or remove the gasket and pad it out in the lower contact points. This is a case where VC over engineered the product.

...When the gasket does not fit right or create a decent seal air escapes and causes these stoves to overfire. Again many were ok from the factory and worked well. It is up to the purcheser to determine if this is one that is ok. Look for whitish coloring on the upper half of the stove, one sign of over firing. The brighter white the more it has been overfired. Look for warped grill inside the stove or bottom grate. I am real puzzled why one would take out the cat and run a new stove that way? To me something does not add up. The cat is what makes that stove preform, burn longer, controled burning, and cleaner. Something is not right. It could be as simple as an idiot opperator.. This needs more investigation and questions need to be asked and answered.

Elk,
Please don't apologize for offering info that could ultimately save me a lot of aggravation and possibly money. And thanks for answering the other question DH suggested that I ask you, but I obviously dropped the ball on. This stove is far enough away that I may actually try to find a tactful way to ask these questions over the phone, or perhaps I'll drop him an email.

I already asked him why he took the Cat out and he simply said that his Father In Law suggested it. Which might make the Father In Law the idiot in question.

Regarding the cost of prepping and installation, any ballpark figures?

Oh, there is one more monkey wrench. DH measured our dimensions, I have the dimensions from VC's web site and the owner emailed me the dimensions in his owner's manual. They are as follows:

.................Ours.................................VC's "minimum"..........Seller's Manual's Number............
Depth........18"....................................15"............................21 1/4".....................................
Width.........36" (front) & 24" (back)....26 1/2".....................25 5/8".....................................
Height........26"...................................21 1/2........................21 1/4"......................................

We would seem to be ok on the width compared to VC's site's "minimum" and the Seller's manual's number, if the "front" width is the critical one. However, our depth is too small compared to the number the Seller gives me on that dimension. Our height is ok regardless. Any thoughts on how the Seller's Manual's number could be so much higher than the numbers on VC's site?

I'm wondering if the depth noted on VC's site allows for the possiblity of some overhang but the manual gives the depth necessary to install it flush? I know from Rhonemas' experience with the Hearthstone insert that it seems they are supposed to be installed flush but they are more effective if the front is pulled out 5" or so from the opening. I forget if he needed to support the front of his Clydesdale from underneath. Since the floor of our chimney is flush with the living room floor I don't think we would need support there.

Is the VC Winter Warm designed to allow for a 3 1/4" overhang? Would that resolve the discrepancy? If not, it would seem that our fireplace isn't deep enough.

Thanks again for the input.
~Cath

 

[theheatelement]

Liner's vary in cost over different sizes. Generally for a 6 in liner you can expect to pay anywhere from 20-40 dollars a foot. Almost all flexible liners have a thickness of .005 as this is the industry standard as well as best suited for the application. As with any product dealing with the combustion of flame within your household you should contact a heating professional in your area to offer more professional advice on installation and costs.

Sorry I know I throw a monkey wrench in all your plans. I want you to be real inqusitive about the winter warm. Ask why they did not use the cat combustor? look real close at the plates and floor for warpage. There is an inherant design flaw with the winter warms, too many plates comprise the front goor gasket fitting. That's righ folks not every Vc product is endorsed by me.

Many dealers were instructed to grind off the higher areas or remove the gasket and pad it out in the lower contact points. This is a case where VC over engineered the product.

...When the gasket does not fit right or create a decent seal air escapes and causes these stoves to overfire. Again many were ok from the factory and worked well. It is up to the purcheser to determine if this is one that is ok. Look for whitish coloring on the upper half of the stove, one sign of over firing. The brighter white the more it has been overfired. Look for warped grill inside the stove or bottom grate. I am real puzzled why one would take out the cat and run a new stove that way? To me something does not add up. The cat is what makes that stove preform, burn longer, controled burning, and cleaner. Something is not right. It could be as simple as an idiot opperator.. This needs more investigation and questions need to be asked and answered.

Elk,
Please don't apologize for offering info that could ultimately save me a lot of aggravation and possibly money. And thanks for answering the other question DH suggested that I ask you, but I obviously dropped the ball on. This stove is far enough away that I may actually try to find a tactful way to ask these questions over the phone, or perhaps I'll drop him an email.

I already asked him why he took the Cat out and he simply said that his Father In Law suggested it. Which might make the Father In Law the idiot in question.

Regarding the cost of prepping and installation, any ballpark figures?

Oh, there is one more monkey wrench. DH measured our dimensions, I have the dimensions from VC's web site and the owner emailed me the dimensions in his owner's manual. They are as follows:

.................Ours.................................VC's "minimum"..........Seller's Manual's Number............
Depth........18"....................................15"............................21 1/4".....................................
Width.........36" (front) & 24" (back)....26 1/2".....................25 5/8".....................................
Height........26"...................................21 1/2........................21 1/4"......................................

We would seem to be ok on the width compared to VC's site's "minimum" and the Seller's manual's number, if the "front" width is the critical one. However, our depth is too small compared to the number the Seller gives me on that dimension. Our height is ok regardless. Any thoughts on how the Seller's Manual's number could be so much higher than the numbers on VC's site?

I'm wondering if the depth noted on VC's site allows for the possiblity of some overhang but the manual gives the depth necessary to install it flush? I know from Rhonemas' experience with the Hearthstone insert that it seems they are supposed to be installed flush but they are more effective if the front is pulled out 5" or so from the opening. I forget if he needed to support the front of his Clydesdale from underneath. Since the floor of our chimney is flush with the living room floor I don't think we would need support there.

Is the VC Winter Warm designed to allow for a 3 1/4" overhang? Would that resolve the discrepancy? If not, it would seem that our fireplace isn't deep enough.

Thanks again for the input.
~Cath