Explain to me the anatomy of a wood burning stove chimney, and hear me complain a little.

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enduring

Burning Hunk
Feb 29, 2020
133
Central Iowa
Hi there, I've been reading about chimney liners on this forum, and looking at chimney liner web sites. We have a reportedly sound brick chimney (per sweep), unlined, 9" internal diameter, from basement to where it was taken down, just shy of the rafters in the attic. The attic is about 5-6 feet tall to the peak. The stove is to be located in the unfinished, uninsulated, clay block walled, concrete floored basement.

We have a Chimney Sweep estimate for a chimney liner that is insulated flexible 316TI at 18ft, through the old brick chimney, out the peak of the roof with a double walled SS 3-4' chimney and rain cap. The stove would be hooked up to the chimney with single wall stove pipe into a new thimble opening. The stove is a new, but not 2020, Jotul F 45 Greenville. The bid includes closure of the old thimble with screen and mortar. This bid would include sweeping the chimney prior to install. The bid is $2600.

I am asking for another 2 bids, but one hasn't got back to me yet...

...The other bid request is to our heating and cooling company that told my DH they could do it, so he arranged for them to write up a bid last month, before I got involved. I called today to get this project moving forward and the heating and cooling company suggests using an aluminum liner. That is wrong, correct??? Then I explained I wanted the liner to be SS 316TI, and he didn't know what I was talking about. He did a google search while he was on the phone, and then acknowledged he would need to look into this some more. He has been installing furnaces for over 30 years, and may have some expertise. I tried to explain that these wood burners are very efficient and need very good drafts to work right, along with high temps. When I told him I believed that my stove was 75-82% efficient, he said that's not efficient, then started to compare it to gas furnace efficiency. This conversation was going nowhere IMHO. I told him I had one bid from a sweep, and was looking to get more bids and information before DH and I made the move to install, and he rather abruptly said I should go with the sweep then. I did some more talking and the conversation softened a bit, after all we have a relationship with this company. He said he'd get back to me, and added a comment that went something like this: "I'll get back to you before we do anything rash". Well I have come away from this conversation thinking that I know more than him, and slightly patronized. They have been a very good heating and cooling company, but this stove project is in a different ballpark I believe.

DH wants someone to install the whole project, and not DIY. He is going to be busy in the field. Money is a concern as grain prices continue to tank. Blah Blah Blah.
 
Hi there, I've been reading about chimney liners on this forum, and looking at chimney liner web sites. We have a reportedly sound brick chimney (per sweep), unlined, 9" internal diameter, from basement to where it was taken down, just shy of the rafters in the attic. The attic is about 5-6 feet tall to the peak. The stove is to be located in the unfinished, uninsulated, clay block walled, concrete floored basement.

We have a Chimney Sweep estimate for a chimney liner that is insulated flexible 316TI at 18ft, through the old brick chimney, out the peak of the roof with a double walled SS 3-4' chimney and rain cap. The stove would be hooked up to the chimney with single wall stove pipe into a new thimble opening. The stove is a new, but not 2020, Jotul F 45 Greenville. The bid includes closure of the old thimble with screen and mortar. This bid would include sweeping the chimney prior to install. The bid is $2600.

I am asking for another 2 bids, but one hasn't got back to me yet...

...The other bid request is to our heating and cooling company that told my DH they could do it, so he arranged for them to write up a bid last month, before I got involved. I called today to get this project moving forward and the heating and cooling company suggests using an aluminum liner. That is wrong, correct??? Then I explained I wanted the liner to be SS 316TI, and he didn't know what I was talking about. He did a google search while he was on the phone, and then acknowledged he would need to look into this some more. He has been installing furnaces for over 30 years, and may have some expertise. I tried to explain that these wood burners are very efficient and need very good drafts to work right, along with high temps. When I told him I believed that my stove was 75-82% efficient, he said that's not efficient, then started to compare it to gas furnace efficiency. This conversation was going nowhere IMHO. I told him I had one bid from a sweep, and was looking to get more bids and information before DH and I made the move to install, and he rather abruptly said I should go with the sweep then. I did some more talking and the conversation softened a bit, after all we have a relationship with this company. He said he'd get back to me, and added a comment that went something like this: "I'll get back to you before we do anything rash". Well I have come away from this conversation thinking that I know more than him, and slightly patronized. They have been a very good heating and cooling company, but this stove project is in a different ballpark I believe.

DH wants someone to install the whole project, and not DIY. He is going to be busy in the field. Money is a concern as grain prices continue to tank. Blah Blah Blah.
I would not have the furnace guy do the install. He clearly has no idea what he is doing. And honestly the fact that he uses aluminum liners at all tells me something about his quality of work. They are not the best product for any appliance and absolutely can't be used for wood. On another note you only need 304 316 is not needed and costs more. But it will work fine
 
I would not have the furnace guy do the install. He clearly has no idea what he is doing. And honestly the fact that he uses aluminum liners at all tells me something about his quality of work. They are not the best product for any appliance and absolutely can't be used for wood. On another note you only need 304 316 is not needed and costs more. But it will work fine
I was thinking about the future plan, if someone were to put a corn burning stove, or a coal burner in, then it should be good to go. I probably am over thinking the future, lol.

I'm going to tell DH that its a no with the heating and cooling company. Thanks @bholler
 
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If im not mistaken Aluminum liner is gas or oil only. Bholler would know. Iv put one in for gas as required by the gas co . ,and it was very fragile. Tears easily. Paper thin.
 
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I was thinking about the future plan, if someone were to put a corn burning stove, or a coal burner in, then it should be good to go. I probably am over thinking the future, lol.

I'm going to tell DH that its a no with the heating and cooling company. Thanks @bholler
In that case 316 is the right choice
 
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If im not mistaken Aluminum liner is gas or oil only. Bholler would know. Iv put one in for gas as required by the gas co . ,and it was very fragile. Tears easily. Paper thin.
Not for oil and not for most gas appliances. And even for ones which aluminum is acceptable for they are still a pretty short lived liner.
 
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Not for oil and not for most gas appliances. And even for ones which aluminum is acceptable for they are still a pretty short lived liner.
Was quite awhile ago , im not sure what they ask for now ,but ill find out soon as im about to restart a gas system that has been down for about 6 yrs.
 
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Was quite awhile ago , im not sure what they ask for now ,but ill find out soon as im about to restart a gas system that has been down for about 6 yrs.
What appliance is it for? Aluminum is acceptable for type 1 appliances. But stainless is always a better option. At 6 years I would start checking it yearly now
 
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What appliance is it for? Aluminum is acceptable for type 1 appliances. But stainless is always a better option. At 6 years I would start checking it yearly now
A 100000 BTU gas boiler.
 
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You would have to check if it is a type 1 appliance. But there is no way I would ever install an aluminum liner for a furnace.
No, i dont have a plan to. If i have to use a liner it will be SS. Or a direct vent conversion kit . Right now it just vents into a brick masonry chimney.
 
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No, i dont have a plan to. If i have to use a liner it will be SS. Or a direct vent conversion kit . Right now it just vents into a brick masonry chimney.
Oh I thought you were saying it was running through aluminum. I misunderstood
 
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What is a type 1 appliance?

Question, what do you think of the bid for chimney and stove install at $2600? Iowa location, near metro locations.
 
What is a type 1 appliance?

Question, what do you think of the bid for chimney and stove install at $2600? Iowa location, near metro locations.
What specifically is covered in the bid?
 
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What is a type 1 appliance?

Question, what do you think of the bid for chimney and stove install at $2600? Iowa location, near metro locations.
Type 1 gas appliance. It is a particular class of gas appliances.

All I can tell you is that $2600 is less than I would charge.
 
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Here is the bid, itemized. See my new thermometer for stove top. I mail ordered this last week along with a double wall pipe thermometer. This bid is for single walled stove pipe, I’d like to get double wall for clearances to protect the surroundings.

[Hearth.com] Explain to me the anatomy of a wood burning stove chimney, and hear me complain a little.
 
What specifically is covered in the bid?
Begreen, The picture in the previous post include the items and $ going into the chimney liner project. Is it ok to put prices on the site? Let me know if I have broken protocol.
 
Begreen, The picture in the previous post include the items and $ going into the chimney liner project. Is it ok to put prices on the site? Let me know if I have broken protocol.
You are fine and the price is pretty good for this area. Not sure about your area
 
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the price is decent for our area.
 
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Thanks to both bholler and begreen. They are close to the online prices. The labor seems fair too. because of uncertainty, I want to get on this soon. I don't think I'll wait for the other contact to get back with me. And I will decline the heating and cooling bid.

To address the first part of my tile of this thread, I should have enough height in the chimney for a good draft. The manual for the Jotul 45-F says minimum of 14ft height. I am loosely estimating that the chimney height on the exterior will be minimum of 3' because the exit from the roof looks like it is less than 1ft down slope from the peak. so add that to the approx 17ft in the house, that will get us to 20 or 21 feet. The manual says too much height will cause too much draft, but they do not say what is too high. Can you tell me what is too high for this chimney and stove?

Lastly, I was wondering how much is too tall for the chimney pipe to stick out of the roof, if I should find a location on the main floor? By my rough calculations, I would need a 6ft roof top chimney, to get a total 14ft chimney. If IRRC the stove pipe doesn't count toward chimney height, right?
 
Not too high. Our flue is around 20' and just about perfect. The stovepipe does count toward total flue system height. Extra points if it is double-wall stovepipe.
 
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Not too high. Our flue is around 20' and just about perfect. The stovepipe does count toward total flue system height. Extra points if it is double-wall stovepipe.
I'm wanting to switch out the stove pipe for double lined, when I confirm the job. I want to do that tomorrow. I told DH that you and bholler thought the bid for the chimney liner installation was reasonable.
 
Why putting burner in uninsulated basement? begreen usually catches those before I show up late to the party. bholler has forgotten more about chimneys than I will ever learn, but sticking a wood stove in an uninsulated basement is not the ideal way to get BTUs into your living space.
 
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Why putting burner in uninsulated basement? begreen usually catches those before I show up late to the party. bholler has forgotten more about chimneys than I will ever learn, but sticking a wood stove in an uninsulated basement is not the ideal way to get BTUs into your living space.
We were through this in the previous thread. This install is for emergency heat only
 
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Poindexter, here is a link to the previous thread that explains the beginning of this stove project:


I started this new thread because it was a new topic.

I called the Sweep and left a message to accept the bid, with change out of 1 wall stove pipe to 2 walled.
 
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