Draft problems with new blaze king

[907josh]

Hi there new to here, I have just installed a new blaze king stove in my house.
My problem is it doesn't seem to draft well at all. I got everything from a dealer including the 8" pipe that is about 10 ft in length. I'm sure hopping it doesn't need to be longer as I would have a heck of a time extending it any higher off my roof. As we get incredible winds here.
Anyhow I can get it going and once started it runs fine, but it takes a good forever and a lot of kindling and the door needs to be open to get it to go. Is there any way to get these to draft maybe from outside air supply, I noticed if the ash plug is slightly open it drafts perfectly.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks

 

[bholler]

Hi there new to here, I have just installed a new blaze king stove in my house.
My problem is it doesn't seem to draft well at all. I got everything from a dealer including the 8" pipe that is about 10 ft in length. I'm sure hopping it doesn't need to be longer as I would have a heck of a time extending it any higher off my roof. As we get incredible winds here.
Anyhow I can get it going and once started it runs fine, but it takes a good forever and a lot of kindling and the door needs to be open to get it to go. Is there any way to get these to draft maybe from outside air supply, I noticed if the ash plug is slightly open it drafts perfectly.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks

You need more height

 

[Sailrmike]

Welcome! First off, I would recommend not using the ash plug to help your problem. Most BK stoves need 15 or 16' of chimney for proper draft.

 

[Alpine1]

At 8” flue diameter it must be a BK king. The user manual clearly states (page 5) that “recommended flue height 17’-18’” and it should be double wall.
You need more height.

 

[907josh]

Dang ok thanks I was worried that could be the problem, ya it's all double wall pipe, funny how the dealer didn't mention this,. I can prolly get away with putting one more stick on top , just have to brace the snot out of it, that will get me to 13ft,then the way I got the stove mounted I can remove its stand and gain another 2 ft so hope 15 will do it cause that's all I got haha. Maybe I should have stuck with a more simple type of stove,
Anyow thanks for the advise I'll do what I can for flue hight and see how that works

 

[Dustin]

A couple things to remember..

How cold is it outside right now?
Secondly, how dry is your wood?

wet wood +warm ish outside temps = sluggish start and draft.
Yeah, the chimney is way too short. But it sounds like that’s not all you have going on

 

[Dieselhead]

You will harm your catalyst if you run with the bypass closed and your ash plug askew.

 

[begreen]

Hi there new to here, I have just installed a new blaze king stove in my house.
My problem is it doesn't seem to draft well at all. I got everything from a dealer including the 8" pipe that is about 10 ft in length. I'm sure hopping it doesn't need to be longer as I would have a heck of a time extending it any higher off my roof. As we get incredible winds here.
Anyhow I can get it going and once started it runs fine, but it takes a good forever and a lot of kindling and the door needs to be open to get it to go. Is there any way to get these to draft maybe from outside air supply, I noticed if the ash plug is slightly open it drafts perfectly.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks

Just to verify and clarify, is 10' the distance from the stove top to the chimney cap? Is the interior stove pipe double-wall? What model Blaze King stove is this? What outdoor temperatures are you trying to burn at?

Bracing will be needed at each 5' level above the point where the chimney pipe exits the roof. So if 10ft of chimney is up there then solidly brace it at the 5' and 10' levels.

 

[Highbeam]

I wouldn't worry about wind, once properly braced it won't blow over. Lots of people are stuck putting up really tall chimneys above their homes to meet minimum heights. 15' is really common even on the simpler noncat stoves now.

 

[Yukonerci]

Hi there new to here, I have just installed a new blaze king stove in my house.
My problem is it doesn't seem to draft well at all. I got everything from a dealer including the 8" pipe that is about 10 ft in length. I'm sure hopping it doesn't need to be longer as I would have a heck of a time extending it any higher off my roof. As we get incredible winds here.
Anyhow I can get it going and once started it runs fine, but it takes a good forever and a lot of kindling and the door needs to be open to get it to go. Is there any way to get these to draft maybe from outside air supply, I noticed if the ash plug is slightly open it drafts perfectly.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks

Like some said prior, definitely more height. But I would also suggest fresh air intake. I got a BK King, and there is a direct pipe from outside connected straight to the stove. I think it would prove helpful, specially if you get more height with your chimney.
My chimney is about 30' straight up, and never had a draft problem.
Cheers

 

[Poindexter]

Alaska is kind of a big place.

Ten feet from stove collar to chimney cap is _probably_ not enough for this part of the year, but if you have high winds or really cold temps it will probably run good for part of the winter. Are you in Barrow or Dutch Harbor?

I started with 13 feet of total pipe on my BK (Ashford30) in Fairbanks, and it ran great in "winter", but it was sluggish and stalled easily in what I think of as shoulder seasons - not enough draft.

Definitely put the ash plug in right and leave it in right. Blowing out cats will get expensive in a hurry- which is what you are risking.

I am not really watching the weather outside the middle Tanana valley, but at say +50s dF daytime highs and +40s dF overnight lows with premium firewood around 16%MC with 10 feet of total pipe on any BK I know of the reason it isn't running good is your pipe is too short.

At -10dF the above setup (including fuel at 16%MC) will probably draft just fine. Adding pipe will let you run it at lower settings in warmer weather.

EDIT: Also, what is the moisture content of your fuel? Buy or borrow a meter in the $30-50 range, the kind with two pins sticking out and usually a 9V battery. Choose a split, split it open and the stick the pins in parallel to the grin on the freshly exposed face. Besides too short a pipe (total height from stove collar to chimeny cap was question one) your wood might be suboptimal.

If your total pipe height is 15 or more feet and your outdoor ambient temperature is less than +50dF mostly likely your wood is not dry enough.

The BK book says 20% MC or lower. The VP of BK has stated pubically on here multiple times over the years that 22% MC measured is OK for all known BK stoves. My BK was installed in May 2014 (I just looked it up). I have run wood at 20%MC and it runs OK. 16-20% MC in the stacks it runs real nice, the sweet spot for my stove, my install, my microclimate is 14%. The stove runs enough better than I target 14% in my stacks every year.

Wood at or under 20% MC really should not require a lot kindling to get rolling, even with only ten feet of total pipe. Wood fuel at 16%MC will light off the entire firebox with a kindling glob the size of a baseball - as a campfire with no chimney on it at all in a matter of ten minutes.

 

[kennyp2339]

OP once you figure out the bugs of the system things will get easier and you will see the superior heating / burn times the BK gives vs a regular epa cert stove.
What kind of space are you heating? I know basic building code in Alaska needs a tight envelope, so you might have issues with a shorter flue, but like someone else mentioned the house / building might be a little to tight and you may need some sort of outdoor air supply to feed the stove (keep in mind if you go this route, the supply needs to be at the stove's o-a-k inlet height or below due to code.)

 

[907josh]

Alaska is kind of a big place.

Ten feet from stove collar to chimney cap is _probably_ not enough for this part of the year, but if you have high winds or really cold temps it will probably run good for part of the winter. Are you in Barrow or Dutch Harbor?

I started with 13 feet of total pipe on my BK (Ashford30) in Fairbanks, and it ran great in "winter", but it was sluggish and stalled easily in what I think of as shoulder seasons - not enough draft.

Definitely put the ash plug in right and leave it in right. Blowing out cats will get expensive in a hurry- which is what you are risking.

I am not really watching the weather outside the middle Tanana valley, but at say +50s dF daytime highs and +40s dF overnight lows with premium firewood around 16%MC with 10 feet of total pipe on any BK I know of the reason it isn't running good is your pipe is too short.

At -10dF the above setup (including fuel at 16%MC) will probably draft just fine. Adding pipe will let you run it at lower settings in warmer weather.

EDIT: Also, what is the moisture content of your fuel? Buy or borrow a meter in the $30-50 range, the kind with two pins sticking out and usually a 9V battery. Choose a split, split it open and the stick the pins in parallel to the grin on the freshly exposed face. Besides too short a pipe (total height from stove collar to chimeny cap was question one) your wood might be suboptimal.

If your total pipe height is 15 or more feet and your outdoor ambient temperature is less than +50dF mostly likely your wood is not dry enough.

The BK book says 20% MC or lower. The VP of BK has stated pubically on here multiple times over the years that 22% MC measured is OK for all known BK stoves. My BK was installed in May 2014 (I just looked it up). I have run wood at 20%MC and it runs OK. 16-20% MC in the stacks it runs real nice, the sweet spot for my stove, my install, my microclimate is 14%. The stove runs enough better than I target 14% in my stacks every year.

Wood at or under 20% MC really should not require a lot kindling to get rolling, even with only ten feet of total pipe. Wood fuel at 16%MC will light off the entire firebox with a kindling glob the size of a baseball - as a campfire with no chimney on it at all in a matter of ten minutes.

Thanks for the reply , lots of good info, expecially on temperature, I live in south west by Dutch harbor so we rarely see temps go below 15 or so during the winter . Right. Now it is nearer to 50 and I don't actually need it until later , just trying to get a feel for how it operates. I've never tested my wood moisture before but I will see if I can get a tester. I usually season my wood for a year , although everything I get is dead so usually it's allready sort of dry, not green anyhow. I'll put another stick of flue on top and see what happens , and maybe look at how to get outside air to it , do they make a air system for these or would I need to fabricate something .
There are no city codes out where I live so I can pretty much do whatever works and is safe

 

[Highbeam]

They make an outside air “snout” that bolts on in back to give you a 3 or 4” nipple to slide an aluminum flex hose onto or you could go directly to rigid duct. It’s like installing a clothes dryer. I’m a fan of burning outside air instead of conditioned interior air.

 

[Poindexter]

I've never tested my wood moisture before but I will see if I can get a tester. I usually season my wood for a year , although everything I get is dead so usually it's allready sort of dry, not green anyhow.

This doesn't work with birch. I haven't been anywhere near Dutch Harbor, but when someone in Fairbanks tells me they have birch that has been "dead and down for xyz years" and then I drive up and find unsplit rounds I cringe. Birch will rot faster than it dries, leaving the stove operator with dry fluffy punk that used to be wood. With some smoky bark on it of course.

Dead spruce, you have a chance if it isn't split.

The closest I have been to Dutch is on the Kenai, Kasilof, Anchor Point, Homer and so on. Ninilchik. If you have birch or spruce that has been split at least once, stacked off the ground and top covered to keep the rain off you will probably be OK, but that line in the first post about using/needing a bunch of kindling makes me nervous. You may not get in trouble with the law running wet wood in a BK, but you will get in trouble with physics.

Can you take pictures of some splits with a ruler showing and weigh them? I have about 7 cords of spruce up here and about 1 cord of birch, both pretty dry. Finding a particular tool in SW can be an issue. I am not likely to have three days in a row off work to fool around in my wood pile again before Thanskgiving.

An outside air it won't help with wet wood or draft. It can keep your house warmer if you have a bunch of air leaks, and an Outside Air Kit (OAK) can also unload your HRV system if you are running one.

 

[BKVP]

You mentioned removing "its stand and gain another 2 ft"....DON'T! All clearances to combustibles, including your hearth, must be maintained. Removing the base would not maintain tested clearances.

Please first check m.c. as indicated by others. Second, add stack. Is the black pipe inside single wall or black double wall? Are there any offsets or elbows?

 

[kennyp2339]

@907josh - just to make things clear as far as draft under the current weather conditions your facing (50f) When you start the stove your using small splits / branches and kindling, thats whats taking forever to light?
Just to go over simple cold start procedures, you open the by-pass, turn the air control thermostat knob all the way open, light the fire and either keep the door cracked open or let the door shut without latching it. You wait till the fire becomes well established, shut the door and latch it, then wait again until the cat probe goes into the active spot, from there while still burning high you engae the by-pass handle, closing and hearing / feeling the double snap of the camshaft locking. Let the cat probe needle hit noon - 1 o'clock then turn the aircontrol to your desired heat output.
*new bk stove's w/ new cats will show an over active cat for the first cord of wood or so, don't be surprised to have the air t-stat control running on half way and seeing the cat probe needle between 3 & 5 pm, this will settle off in time, also you will see the famous BK glow behind the cat flame shield (this is where the cult or right of passage starts, no flames in the fire box, just the warm bright glow coming off the cat at night) The other thing I have noticed, especially during warmer shoulder seasons and my BK princess free stander is that my start ups are a little sluggish, the stove really like at least 1" of ash covering the bottom bricks, especially on cold start in warmer conditions.
The gist of the draft test would be to get the stove running in the active range with the by-pass closed, turn the air control to the max, wait a minute or so, open the by-pass, wait another minute, then slowly crack the door open, you shouldn't have and major smoke spillage with a normal draft, if you get a big bubble waft of smoke that enters the structure then you have a draft issue, either from stack effect, house tightness, down draft or short flue.
There are plenty of people here on this forum that run a chimney height between 10-15ft that have no issues, micro climate also plays a part such as near by hill, tall tree's within 20ft of the chimney, chimney location to prevailing winds and roof structure (you get an air foil effect)