Cutting a $10 tree with a $5 saw... bad idea for novice???

[SnapCracklePop]

So, I'm one who has nightmares about kickback, unplanned amputations, etc. But I've seen the tree guys cut standing trees and downed logs with a bar that's nowhere near the diameter of the tree/log. I didn't pay much attention to their technique at the time.

Now I'm the one operating the little Craftsman with an 18" bar. I have done okay on stuff up to about 14" in diameter. I'm terrified to try anything that would involve burying the tip of my saw in the wood. Is there a different dynamic in play? I understand how bumping the tip of a running saw against an object sends it flying. Seems to me that shouldn't happen in the middle of a log, but...

The old cereal commercial comes to mind: "You try it. No, you try it... I know: Let's get Mikey!!"

Tell me, experts. What's the deal?

Nancy

 

[HittinSteel]

kickback happens when the top portion of the bar tip makes contact........ burying the bar cutting in a normal fashion will not cause kickback.

 

[lukem]

kickback happens when the top portion of the bar tip makes contact........ burying the bar cutting in a normal fashion will not cause kickback.

If this is your bar:


#############999999999999999
##STIHL ROLOMATIC E##########9
##MADE IN GERMANY############
#########################

The 9's are the danger zone for kickback.

 

[billb3]

Experience.
Some guys can plunge cut a Sawzall, too.
I break blades.

 

[Jags]

And always hang on to the saw like you "expect" a kickback.

 

[zzr7ky]

Have somebody who's quite able demonstrate. Stopping in at the local saw shop on a slow day and asking might do it. There is also online training available... Try searching on the "game of logging". Also ther are state and OSHA training modules out on the net that are quite good.

I can and do occasionally bore sstraight in with the bar, but one could get along pretty well not doing it.

Strength is also an element of control; especially if plung cutting/bore cutting.

In my experience the Craftsman and most 'store - homeowner' saws have to much bar. You will have a lighter, handier, and easier to manage saw if you put a 16 or even 14" bar on it.

Good for you looking for training.

Mike

 

[moosetrek]

I can't remember where, but there was a link someone posted to some online "training" for felling techniques that had illustrations of how to bore cut and what part of the bar goes in first, etc. - it was pretty informative. Maybe Google it if no one knows a good link?

 

[moosetrek]

"Before practicing the bore cut, you must first understand the concept of the
“starting corner†of the chainsaw. The starting corner is the bottom of the tip of the
bar. When making a bore cut, always start cutting into the wood with this part of
the bar to avoid kickback. Start cutting with the saw at full throttle. The trick is to
avoid contacting the tree with the kickback corner, or upper quadrant of the tip of
the chainsaw bar, when beginning the cut." ((broken link removed to http://www.arbormaster.com/~arbormas/uploads/pdfs/Felling) Techniques.pdf)

 

[Jags]

Not trying to sound like a hall monitor, but I don't think the question was about a bore cut, simply concerns about the bar not reaching the other side.

IF in fact this is true - Nancy, when cutting through a log that has more girth than you have bar, the portion of the bar that is doing the work is NOT the portion that will cause a kick back. It will act just like any other cut you make.

 

[moosetrek]

You're right, the question didn't ask about a bore cut - but it was a question concerning the "dynamic in play" as it relates to "burying the tip of my saw in the wood"; the bore cut language seemed to address that by discussing the process for burying the saw tip in wood and what areas on the bar are least likely to result in kickback in that situation. Sorry to have led Nanacy astray, wasn't my intent.

 

[Jags]

Moose -your info was spot on. Nothing wrong with that. I just didn't want Nancy to think that there was a whole bunch more to this, than there really is. Just clarifying.

 

[smokinj]

And always hang on to the saw like you "expect" a kickback.

+1 once you have felt it a couple time muscle memory just takes over.

 

[SnapCracklePop]

Alrighty... I don't think I need to learn plunge or bore cuts. My concern was more about what happens if I'm trying to cut a log into rounds and it's bigger in diameter than my 18" saw.

I'm getting the idea that I should be okay even if and when the entire bar gets buried -- in the process of making the cut.

I will be working up some more of my own trees later on, and I plan to get a load of logs, so I know I'll get into some of the bigger stuff. For now, I'm just learning simple cuts on the smaller stuff. I keep myself off to the left side, try to keep arms sorta straight, expect the unexpected, pay attention to the tip of the saw, etc... I cut partway through a log and then roll it over to finish it. And I have watched some excellent videos online; just didn't find what I was looking for in a quick search the other day.

I have a Habitat for Humanity hard hat, safety goggles, gloves, boots. Need to scrounge up some chaps, perhaps...

Also, I never go out there without my cell phone in my pocket. Oh, and my neighbor Bob and I will be working together after I get some more trees dropped.

Excellent idea to pick the brains of Cris, the tree guy who's going to be taking down the big oak next to my house.

Thanks!

Nancy

 

[smokinj]

Use a Wedge!

 

[midwestcoast]

Always smart to think about safety beforehand. Felling larger trees with a smaller saw is a concern to me and IIWY I wouldn't do it until I had someone competent to learn from.
Just bucking them up on the ground though is no biggie IMO if you're at all comfortable with a saw.
Cutting smaller logs in a pile or limbs is the situation where kickback is more likely. My Husky manual even states that "Most kickback accidents happen during limbing."
The most common kickback scenario is cutting where the bar is LONGER than the wood diameter and the tip hits something on the other side where you don't see it.

One thing that can happen when bucking large wood is when the log is supported on either side of the cut and you cut through, getting the bar pinched. The top side chain can jam and push the saw straight back toward you, BUT this is more of a potential problem with a more powerful saw, it's not as fast as a kickback, you should see the kerf closing letting you know you're about to get pinched, and you have way more leverage to hold the saw in place provided you're keeping both hands on. I guess if you're really not paying attention the saw could be pushed all the way out to the tip and then cause a kickback, but really if you are watching & holding it's just not likely to happen.
Pinching can be avoided by starting the cut from the top, then finishing from the bottom up or just sticking a wedge in the kerf once the bar is well buried.
Also be aware that larger rounds & logs can roll when you cut them. Stand on the uphill side. If you need to make 2 cuts, cut thedownhill side first, then finish on uphill side.

 

[midwestcoast]

..., and I plan to get a load of logs, so I know I'll get into some of the bigger stuff. For now, I'm just learning simple cuts on the smaller stuff... Need to scrounge up so chaps, perhaps...
Nancy

Carefull cutting on that pile. Short bar is your friend there. Cut 1 log at a time and always be aware of your bar tip on the far side.

$50 get you chaps that could save your leg/life. Cheap insurance IMO.

 

[Thistle]

Top of cylinder cover on my Poulan 475,good advice to follow every day no matter what size saw you own or operate....

 

[moosetrek]

..., and I plan to get a load of logs, so I know I'll get into some of the bigger stuff. For now, I'm just learning simple cuts on the smaller stuff... Need to scrounge up so chaps, perhaps...
Nancy

Carefull cutting on that pile. Short bar is your friend there. Cut 1 log at a time and always be aware of your bar tip on the far side.

$50 get you chaps that could save your leg/life. Cheap insurance IMO.

+1 on the chaps - heck even if you're lucky and all you nick is your jeans, that's half the cost of chaps right there. And saws don't seem to stop at the jeans... add on some bandaids or even stiches and chaps get pretty cheap.

 

[zzr7ky]

I do not cut without a wedge in my back pocket, and saftey chaps on.

The chaps are about 15 years old, and have just one spot on one knee where one tooth caught one day. : O

Wearing the chaps when you really need 'em - Priceless!

 

[mayhem]

- Regions and suppliers vary like crazy, but I have rarely seen log lengths delivered that have any logs exceeding 14-15" diameter. Finding a log in a delivered pile that is bigger than your bar will be unusual. To be fair, I do not get log lengths delivered..I scrounge and drop my own trees for firewood.
- Have you asked if Cris will be needing all that oak he's dropping next door? Could be easy pickin's for 2012-2013 season.
- Definitely use PPE. Chaps, gloves and a helmet minimum.
- I would think you would be best off with the pile to roll the logs off the top and buck them on or near ground level. Easier to get at and way safer than standing on top of a pile of potentially unstable logs that might roll if you unknowngly cut a keystone round.
- Don't cut alone.

Good luck, be safe.

 

[lukem]

Another good piece of advice is to always keep your left thumb under the top handle...ALWAYS! If your thumb is wrapped over the top handle it can slip off in the event of a kick-back.

 

[SnapCracklePop]

I have about 10 trees that are dead or dying, and just about all of them are oak, so they won't be fuel-eligible for a few years. The oak next to my house is all mine; I guess I didn't explain that very well. It is a potential danger, as it divides about 5 feet up from the ground, and half of it leans toward my house. It's held together with a wire cable, but that's been in there some 15 years. I hold my breath when it gets windy.

My plans for future winters include a local supplier of locust; some log loads; my own oak and maple trees; and scrounges of you-never-know...

The hardest part will be figuring out where to put everything and remembering what my plans were for it all...

Nancy

 

[bpirger]

Have you cut enough to experience a dull chain? You will notice a drop in cutting speed...and becomes more like work. Time to resharpen. If you wait too long, you'll start seeing your bar "burn" a little bit, your chain cutters will get "brown", etc. It is a HUGE difference...once you know what to expect.

If you are cutting and notice that all your cuts are square to the log, but curved, this is becuase your chain wasn't sharpened right. One side cuts more than the other, hence the curve, becuase one side is sharper than the other. This is a real PITA...but you just have to sharpen the chain properly.

Chain sharpening is an acquired skill...least it was for me. I just use a free hand file these days....but the angle against the cutter is important, and is the angle (tip) with respect to the ground. Also, files come in different sizes...must use the right one! And files also get dull and need to be thrown away. A nice sharp file does a wonderful job on a cutter. You should see little metal filiings coming off the cutter/file. How many strokes? I've been told "until it is sharp", but I typically do no more than three. Sometimes you won't get a very good, solid stroke of the file. But you can feel a big difference in the second stroke from the first....as you get it sharper. Some cutters will have a line on the top...this is the angle of the file....

Some guys have told me they can sharpen to better than a new chain....I've never come close. Cutting with a new chain is a wonderful experience! I don't think there is a bigger waste of time or energy then cutting with a dull chain! And once you put that sharp new chain on a nice saw, I have a 371XP, going back down to somethign smaller is really a let down!


My first load of logs....I had my grandpa's old Homelite. Well, it would take me a minute to cut through a 10" block. This was plain dumb I thought...but I knew no better. SO I bought a new chain...and oh what a difference! Then I tried to sharpen....and everything was curved! And I had no idea what was going on. I was a grad student at the time...read very poor. Something happened that I went out and bought a little Husy 141. Oh my goodness, I thought I had found the bees knees! What a HUGE difference that little saw was. 10" cuts should be seconds....and just a few.

If you are doing this for the first time all alone, make sure you ask....I can't tell ya how many hours it took me to cut up just a few logs with the homelite and dull chain. What I don't understand is how the neighbors didn't stop and laugh at me....

 

[Danno77]

remember to stay out of the plane of the chain. Using a chainsaw is like playing by a busy street. No problems with playing there, just don't wander into the street.