CT BILL 6616 WOOD SMOKE IS A PUBLIC NUSIANCE

[daveswoodhauler]

I thought this remark was interesting.....just another revenue source for the municipality. Also, no definition of what consists of a "violation"

Explanation

This bill would extend the provisions of the public nuisance statute to include wood smoke emissions, no later than 7/4/10, and could result in a "revenue" gain to municipalities dependent upon the number of violators and the amount of the fine assessed violators. The maximum fine for Public Health Code violators is $100 per violation.

A potential cost to various municipalities may also result, dependent on the number of complaints received related to wood smoke emissions, investigations prompted, and abatement orders issued. It is anticipated that the Department of Public Health will incur no fiscal impact in response to the enactment of this bill"

 

[rphurley]

I agree. If this bill was supposed to overwhelmingly benefit society, then why would they consider its fiscal impact in the first place?

 

[daveswoodhauler]

My bet is the bill will pass.....BUT...will then just become one of the non enforced laws in the state....its going to be up to each town to patrol.....and with staff reductions/budget cuts in most states....its just more useless legislation.

I'm all for folks burning right...i.e. not burning oil rags, etc....but when someone says I can't use my little pit so I can make smores with my kids, that gets my goat.

 

[edthedawg]

I emailed our local State Rep (Penny Bacchiocchi) and State Sen. (Tony Guglielmo). Similar to Fugazi42's points in post #23 above.

 

[fugazi42]

I thought this remark was interesting.....Also, no definition of what consists of a "violation"

"

Exactly- I made that point in my email to my rep- As it stands, the bill seems to define any type or duration of wood smoke as a nuisance. I think that at the very least the bill should quantify somehow what level of smoke is acceptable. I made the point that even a properly run EPA-certified stove will emit some level of smoke during start up and reloads. During normal operation a properly running stove should not smoke at all, however, any stove is going to emit some smoke at some point.

Josh

 

[edthedawg]

Fugazi42 - you copyin' me??

From my letter:
"The most experienced individuals, using the highest quality wood, in the newest EPA-rated woodstove will still create some smoke every time they start or re-load a fire. Good practices will lead to that smoke ending quickly. A system that continues to belch smoke in great volumes should be stopped - it can be considered a nuisance, and more importantly, it signals a danger to the occupants of the home in terms of CO production and chimney-fire risks."

 

[billb3]

There has been some articles in the local papers here in Ma. last Winter regarding legislation effectively banning or at least doing something about OWBs. Neighbors generrally don't know a neighbor has a OWB until they start throwing anything and everything in it.

A oil furnace that hasn't been cleaned in 5 years can belch some pretty nasty &%^$, too.

 

[rphurley]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090417/ap_ono_ot/epa_climate might this clash?
GLOBAL DIMMING program on PBS studied effect of cleared skies after 9/11 & concluded that pollution acted as a shield against global warming, quite interesting.

Good post, but your signature is way over my head!

 

[savageactor7]

I predicted this about 6 months ago...

...this is nothing more than a parasite gypsy shake down scam. It's not fair that you heat your home for 'free'...so ynow you'll be paying a pollution tax. Put this law in the same category of corrupting our police into 'revenue generators with guns' category.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Say what you like.

What goes around, comes around. And, I've been here before.

BLAME goes nowhere, except it eats at yourself.

To get out of this, wood burners need to be responsible for what they do.

It's this simple.

If we don't, we won't be around long...

Aye,
Marty

 

[LeonMSPT]

"Public nuisance". Ayuh... right. Only "nuisance" I've noticed is these individuals who seem to have popped up out of the ground, running around screeching and crying about anything anyone else is doing that "bothers them" in any way. Well, no that's not true, but the "nuisance" down to the state Capitol has only gotten really bad over the last decade or so. Before that they seemed to mind their business better, and weren't so "beholden" to the first group. Now, they're in cahoots, and that's going to be a real problem.

Cabin in the woods is sounding better and better, all the time. Signs on the property line and at the end of the driveway, "NO TRESPASSING". Underneath, "If you're wondering if this means you. IT DOES!" Under that, "If you aren't wondering. COME ON IN, COFFEE'S ON AND THE BEER IS COLD."

I sincerely hope people in this country wake up soon. Realize that those people down to the "gilded halls" at the state capitols and Washington, D.C. are not smart enough to be running everything. They've got more than they can handle with what they're supposed to be doing, and this business of trying to run it all from there is going to be our downfall.

 

[stanleyjohn]

I too have just sent a email to my state rep about this bill.I said that i would only support such a bill if it would punish only those who continue to burn wood incorrectly with large amounts of smoke consistently being produced with little or no regards to the local neighbor's.I also stated that many of us with wood stoves burn correctly which produces little to no smoke most of the time.I just don't want to see this bill get out of control where some claim its a health hazard to them and others if they smell alittle bit of smoke causing me or others to get a fine or lose the right to burn wood..

 

[gibson]

The best is yet to come. The nanny state is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Fortunately none of this stuff can or will be really enforced. With cities and towns literally going bankrupt, they will have all they can handle, never mind writing citations for people with wood stoves.

 

[Heem]

Email sent to Gail Hamm and Eileen Daly.. neither of which have ever cared about anything I've ever written to them about.

The meat of my email was that at the very least the law needs to quantify what levels of wood smoke are a nuisance and should contain verbiage to prevent this from being used to make the lives difficult on those that depend on wood to heat their homes and for cooking purposes.

I wonder if any oil companies lobbied for this bill?

 

[John_M]

It was many years ago when I lived in Alaska or Idaho that at certain times during the (usually) winter when the wind was very quiet, the air inside and outside my house was saturated with pollutants from wood burning and other sources (dirty vehicle exhausts, etc). I believe this was around the time of the EPA II regulations were being adopted. I was burning an EPA II wood stove. I also suffered from severe chronic bronchitus and asthma. Those times of heavy air pollution were very hard on my health. I can vividly recall standing in my kitchen bent over with my hands on my knees gasping for oxygen. A local law was enacted in a neighboring city which limited the pollutants rising from a chimney in that city. The health dept. in that city had hundreds of complaints from citizens about how the air pollution was affecting the health of their children to the point that local pediatricians had a significant increase in Dr.'s visits during those times. Doctors were on the local evening news describing the near term and long term problems facing those exposed to this polluted air.

Responding to complaints, inspectors would ride around in their cars during those "still" winter days measuring the opacity of the smoke rising from chimneys. I do not know what kind of device they used to measure this pollution. If the smoke from your chimney violated this law you were issued a warning. If the violation occurred again you had to pay a fine. I have forgotten the amount of that fine.

I believe most people would agree that clean air is better for human health than dirty air. I also believe most would agree that burning responsibly is a good thing and burning irresponsibly is a bad thing. Perhaps the legislation being proposed in the great state of Connecticut is intended to clean-up the most serious violators of air pollution laws. The devil (is) always in the details and does anynoe yet know all the specific details of this proposed regulation?

I am not a "tree hugger" or a member of PETA or any other right wing or left wing political group/organization. For years I hunted both large and small game in various states. I eat meat, poultry and fish. About fifteen years ago I stopped hunting because I enjoy watching the animals too much. For years I cut and burned my own wood in EPA II stoves. I will soon resume this burning after moving back to the great state of New York. For the last year or I have been cutting, splitting and stacking my stash of wood just for that first burn.

My reason for posting this message is to show that, in my opinion, there are usually two or more sides to various issues and that usually, no one side has more or less virtue than the others. All sides usually have valid arguments in their favor. Responsible adults can usually arrive at a responsible compromise position where all win and no one group looses its rights.

Best wishes to all.

John_M

 

[webbie]

Yawn....Ma. did this like 25 years ago.....nothing much ever came of it.
Just gave a framework in case someone misbehaved....you should be able to cover it under open burning or nuisance laws anyway.

 

[begreen]

Some area geography naturally sets the region up for winter temperature inversions. We get them once or twice a year and have burn bans during those periods. There is usually no wind and you can see the pollution accumulating. There are two stages, stage 1, when no outdoor burning, no uncertified wood stove or fireplace burning is allowed. Only EPA phase II stoves and pellet stove burning is allowed. No smoke must be visible from the chimney after 20 minutes. If it gets worse, then it goes to phase 2 where no burning is allowed unless it's your sole source of heat. And even then if any smoke is visible from your chimney you can be fined. We honor those bans. It's obvious why they are called. During them, very often smoke goes downhill from the chimney and gathers in any pocket or valley. Gags me and I don't have any allergies or asthma.

(broken link removed to http://www.pscleanair.org/airq/burnban/default.aspx#stage1)

 

[Chettt]

If you want to keep burning wood we all need to oppose any ban on any type of burning. Once fireplaces and nonEPA burning is banned the same people will come after the EPA ones because even those smell worse than their electric furnace. They may start by telling you burning is only allowed on certain months, only when the temperature drops below a certain degree or only if there is a prolonged power outage. As much as you may hate the old guy that burns leaves in an old stove, if you don't side with his rights you will lose yours.

 

[caber]

i doubt they will be sending out Columbo to do an investigation. You'll get a citation in the mail and an envelop to send your $100 check in with. We were hit with a warning about loose animals 2 years ago. Neighbor complained. There was no investigation, no one asked us our side, no witness were called, no one came out to look. Officials take the word of the one complaining and send the bill. It is up to you to prove otherwise. One neighbor with a grudge or environmental cause can shut down you and the rest of your wood-burning neighbors in a very short time.

And if the law does not clearly define what a nuisance amount of smoke is, then it is defined by the upset neighbor. With hard to prove things like their asthma, allergies, burning eyes. They may not see your smoke but they can smell it. or they just "know" you;re burning.

It's a slippery slope indeed. You may be well and good right now, but all it takes is one new neighbor.

 

[Wood Duck]

There are plenty of wood burners in my area who certainly are a nuisance. One chimney down the street smokes continuously all winter, and not just a whisp of smoke, but a thick plume that more often than not drops down to ground level and can fill the small valley below us. I am not sure I favor any type of regulation of wood smoke, but I can see why some people see a need for it. There are plenty of wood burners out there who don't seem to make any effort to limit the smoke they produce.

 

[rphurley]

[There are plenty of wood burners out there who don't seem to make any effort to limit the smoke they produce.[/quote]

I agree with all of your points. There are also alot of corporations and industries as well as countries that don't care to limit the smoke they produce, so maybe the government should start with them before picking on us woodburners.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

[There are plenty of wood burners out there who don't seem to make any effort to limit the smoke they produce.

I agree with all of your points. There are also alot of corporations and industries as well as countries that don't care to limit the smoke they produce, so maybe the government should start with them before picking on us woodburners.[/quote]

I think the differance might be that the homeowners are in a urban area, directly affecting people around them, whereas the factories are in manufacturing districts, where the population density is low. Sure they affect over all air quailty, but its not in your face. Here is a great write up on the libbey montana restriction and change out program...
(broken link removed to http://woodstovechangeout.org/index.php?id=27)

 

[pistonslap]

LET'S FACE IT. IT'S OUR FAULT...
If "we" (the collective wood burning community) don't clean up our own act, "they" will.

I absolutely agree with Marty's points. I emphasized this in the email I sent to my representative. I made the point that the folks who burn in old non-EPA stoves, who burn wet wood, and who run OWB's improperly (*) give the rest of us a bad name. I asked my rep. to ensure that my right to heat my home with wood isn't affected by this legislation. The reality is that we wood burners have a serious image problem.


(*) I believe OWB's can be run in a responsible manner. I have a neighbor a few houses down from me who runs an OWB that I've never seen emit more than a wisp of smoke. On the other hand, there's a lot of dirty, poorly run OWBs (and stoves!) out there as well.

I burn in a non-epa wood furnace and I'll bet mine doesn't pollute any more than an epa II stove. There are a lot of us old stove users out there that probably burn cleaner than new stove users. It's all about knowing how to burn ( a lot of which I leaned from this site.) Don't get into that why don't you go after the older stoves because I have a new one mentality. Once you open that door you never get it closed until they get everybody.

 

[caber]

LET'S FACE IT. IT'S OUR FAULT...
If "we" (the collective wood burning community) don't clean up our own act, "they" will.

I absolutely agree with Marty's points. I emphasized this in the email I sent to my representative. I made the point that the folks who burn in old non-EPA stoves, who burn wet wood, and who run OWB's improperly (*) give the rest of us a bad name. I asked my rep. to ensure that my right to heat my home with wood isn't affected by this legislation. The reality is that we wood burners have a serious image problem.


(*) I believe OWB's can be run in a responsible manner. I have a neighbor a few houses down from me who runs an OWB that I've never seen emit more than a wisp of smoke. On the other hand, there's a lot of dirty, poorly run OWBs (and stoves!) out there as well.

I burn in a non-epa wood furnace and I'll bet mine doesn't pollute any more than an epa II stove. There are a lot of us old stove users out there that probably burn cleaner than new stove users. It's all about knowing how to burn ( a lot of which I leaned from this site.) Don't get into that why don't you go after the older stoves because I have a new one mentality. Once you open that door you never get it closed until they get everybody.

Amen! I have a neighbor next to us with a brand-new Jotul epa stove. We have 2 non-epa "smoke dragons." The neighbors and their epa stove regularly put out a plume of smoke of epic proportions. On ours, you can't tell there is even a fire going. It's about the wood and your ability to work your stove. There are 2 owb's I walk by in the mornings. one has a wisp of smoke, one has a plume.

 

[stoveguy13]

Look like the billis dead. it did not make it out of the enviorment. looks like we are safe for now