Cracked Princess! Can I weld it safely?

[Tocramed]

8 year old Princess insert. I have been chasing cat failures and decided to pull the bypass and fix/clean a few things while replacing another cat (4-5 months on a DuraFoil, but that's another issue). While cleaning I noticed this. Safe to weld? I haven't tried to get at it from the inside yet.
I am guessing this would be enough of an air leak to ruin a cat quick.

 

[stoveliker]

Dang.
I think you can weld it, if you have the skills.
Not sure whether the tension that caused this might make it crack again soon.

It'll be ugly though as you can't weld from the inside. And creosote will then end up in the crack, causing (more) corrosion.

 

[Tocramed]

Yeah, this sucks. The unit is not even close to paying for itself with all the issues I've had. I agree with you that not being able to weld the inside will be a problem.
I suppose I need to just try it and see. Can't afford a new stove right now.

 

[EbS-P]

That’s a tough spot. I don’t see how one could do it well with the pin still there. What is the warranty on it?

 

[Tocramed]

I think it's a 5 or 6 year warranty.

 

[stoveliker]

5 years.

 

[Tocramed]

Yep, that's how it goes. I will try to cut all that out and fill it back up.

 

[stoveliker]

How are you going to keep the hinge pin from getting out of alignment, welding and changing tension so close by?

 

[Tocramed]

Good question. Hope for the best? Maybe I can bribe this elf that keeps popping up around the house for some of his magic.

 

[Tocramed]

Maybe I could weld a support piece vertically on the left side of the pin/s to help hold it in place.

 

[stoveliker]

I think you'd have to grind that off when all is done, otherwise the back end of the door might jump into it when opening?

I.e. put the door back on and see what space there is when the door is open.

 

[Tocramed]

Yeah, just remove it afterwards if it works.

 

[Highbeam]

I wouldn't worry one bit about the alignment of that pin changing. I would do something to protect it from spatter. This weld isn't some high heat structural weld so much as a crack filler.

Series of tacks with a wirefeed like doing bodywork.

Looks like a lot of cracks and with that white chalkiness, is this thing getting too hot?

 

[Tocramed]

There was a door gasket leak there a couple years ago. Never noticed any cracks after fixing that, but they do explain way I can't get a full season out of a cat.
BK support said the cat failures could also be from turning the air down too far after a reload. I usually turn it down till it starts to whistle, then wait another 10-15min to get it the rest of the way down. But I could see how going from hot to little air/no flames too quick could cause issues.

 

[Highbeam]

There was a door gasket leak there a couple years ago. Never noticed any cracks after fixing that, but they do explain way I can't get a full season out of a cat.
BK support said the cat failures could also be from turning the air down too far after a reload. I usually turn it down till it starts to whistle, then wait another 10-15min to get it the rest of the way down. But I could see how going from hot to little air/no flames too quick could cause issues.

Weird, nothing in the manual about too low of a setting causing cat failures. These things are designed to run low and slow.

 

[Tocramed]

Not running too low, but the first turn down after the reload. Let it get hot and turn about halfway down. I would turn it down till it started to whistle and the flames would decrease. Support said that is too far for the first turn down and the cat would cool too quickly.

 

[stoveliker]

I believe that (the cat would cool too quickly upon turning down) is nonsense.
The cat generally *heats up* after turning down the air. Why? Because turning down the air would decrease primary flame combustion, leaving the wood smoldering and emitting half-combusted gases, which is what is the fuel for the cat. So fuel for the cat increases. And when the cat eats more fuel, it heats up (because reacting it in the cat is exothermic, i.e. it creates heat). Hence you can have a very low temp firebox (just smoldering) and a glowing cat.

So communication went wrong there.

Now, it is not smart to dial down too fast. I'm not sure what the whistling is you're talking about (generally that'd indicate too much draft...), but you want to heat things up, char the load, and when the fire is going well, dial the thermostat down. But don't do so in one go. Dial down in 3 or 4 steps to the thermostat setting you want.
The decreasing in 1 step can work, but sometimes it leads to problems. Best to induce smaller changes that the firebox and thermostat can equilibrate to before introducing further changes.

 

[Tron]

I would turn it down till it started to whistle and the flames would decrease. Support said that is too far for the first turn down and the cat would cool too quickly.

Not sure about your thermostat, at least mine doesn't whistle.
But I also do it that way: let the fire catch and then close the bypass and immediately turn down the thermostat.
Admittedly, I never let the cat get screaming hot before I do that.

 

[EbS-P]

To the OP, How many feet of liner and is it insulated?

 

[Tocramed]

The "whistling" is the air control valve being right at that perfect spot before being completely closed. Not consitent by any means. It only happens right at that point the flames slow down/start to go away. I also agree that less air means more smoke for the cat to burn.

I have an 18ft insulated heavy liner. Draft is good, but I don't think it is too high. Never measured it though.
Edit: I actually have an 8" liner from an old stove (insulated) with the 6" heavy liner for the BK stove run through the 8". No insulation between the 6 and 8.