Contractor says chimney is impossible to add liner to!
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Craig, I visited this site based upon mention of it on another site. I had bookmarked it on the suggestion of a friend, who is a factory rep. as I once was. I came here to offer advice but apparently, this crowd is more interested in putting down those who espouse doing it correctly. You talk about calling out members--re-read the thread and see the 'warm' greeting I got here. Not a very friendly bunch you have here. It is your interpretation to mock the codes and stds. when, as a person in a responsible role should be the very one pushing people to do things by the book rather than trying to justify cutting corners. I'm sorry but I don't see that as a professional stance. Your sarcasm about professionals trying to do things right is not in the public's best interest. Your own comments about if you see tile sticking out of a flue being an indicator it is lined is just irresponsible and utterly absurd.
Enjoy your little fiefdom here where everyone thinks you walk on water. I do not want to be associated with this site so please unsubsribe me.
Hearthman
Enjoy your little fiefdom here where everyone thinks you walk on water. I do not want to be associated with this site so please unsubsribe me.
Hearthman
Webmaster said:
Not necessary so. I built my own masonay chimneys back in the 70's and lined the one for the wood stove with tile, but not the one for the fueloil furnace. It didn't need lining but I did stick a flue liner out the top for looks. You need to look down the chimney to see the lining and it can be inspected with a flashlight and mirrow to see if any tiles are cracked, broken, or just not there.
OK, the guy inquired as to whether his chimney had a clay or terra-cotta liner.
Am I missing something? If it was built in 1983 and it is 7" ID and it has orange or red sticking out???
No problem with advice, but since we cannot see chimneys from afar nor replace the actual pros and installers who are getting paid to do the job, we just try to flush out what the actual situation is. Sooner or later we often get to the truth. This dude was already misled by two "pros" who may have certifications themselves.
As to your statements about building officials and everyone else in the world except F.I.R.E. inspectors (or whatever) not being qualified, I disagree completely. There are fools everywhere and smart folks too! I know a lot of mechanical contractors who know their stuff. I know sweeps who are experts - who have never gotten a single cert. I know certified sweeps who I would not have work on my house. So be it.
If all the "pros" were so good, we would not have a couple million people here each year looking for information. You too (in a few minutes) can set up a site or forum and dispense advice. But it takes more than quoting code and turning down 100% of chimneys to make the world go round.
Am I missing something? If it was built in 1983 and it is 7" ID and it has orange or red sticking out???
No problem with advice, but since we cannot see chimneys from afar nor replace the actual pros and installers who are getting paid to do the job, we just try to flush out what the actual situation is. Sooner or later we often get to the truth. This dude was already misled by two "pros" who may have certifications themselves.
As to your statements about building officials and everyone else in the world except F.I.R.E. inspectors (or whatever) not being qualified, I disagree completely. There are fools everywhere and smart folks too! I know a lot of mechanical contractors who know their stuff. I know sweeps who are experts - who have never gotten a single cert. I know certified sweeps who I would not have work on my house. So be it.
If all the "pros" were so good, we would not have a couple million people here each year looking for information. You too (in a few minutes) can set up a site or forum and dispense advice. But it takes more than quoting code and turning down 100% of chimneys to make the world go round.
Carl said:
Correct....in the end you must look down, or else at least see it at the top and at the bottom (looking into crock).
But the age and the ID do give it away. In the end, only a site inspection can determine what is going on....but chances are.....it is built to the 1983 codes or close.
Back to the original part of the thread - if we assume this is a sound and lined chimney, then it should be relatively easy to install some sort of an upgraded liner system. If the pre-insulated does not fit, then single wall may, and poured insulation can be used (if needed).
If the chimney is NOT lined - and has a fake tile as you mention, then it might be best to remove that tile giving a larger ID, and then you can drop an insulated liner system down easier.
tunaman4u2 said:
Confused again....yes, those are called "flue tiles" or tiles, even though they have no "tiles".
If there is something of the sort you see in the links, then...yes, the chimney is already lined. As you may gleam from the other posts, that does not mean it is as safe as it can be, although the codes and the building inspector and mason in 1983 surely thought so. Adding an additional ss liner which is much higher temp rated will add a much higher degree of safety....even IF the existing chimney meets most codes and standards.
This bad boy 1983 chimney has the tiles top to bottom alright, never been used too.
We'll see what the town inspector has to say & then we are off to the races
Saw the 30" Englander wood stoves at a Home Depot in Seabrook NH for 899. They have 2 of em tax free!
They are HUGE but not the most attractive stove in the bunch but for that price who cares!
Thanks for the help everyone. A site like this is to gather some ideas & point you in the right direction. The little guys all appreciate the time the respondants take. Very friendly bunch IMO. I look forward to adding my experience with the inspector for someone else to learn a thing or two
The Tunaman
We'll see what the town inspector has to say & then we are off to the races
Saw the 30" Englander wood stoves at a Home Depot in Seabrook NH for 899. They have 2 of em tax free!
They are HUGE but not the most attractive stove in the bunch but for that price who cares!
Thanks for the help everyone. A site like this is to gather some ideas & point you in the right direction. The little guys all appreciate the time the respondants take. Very friendly bunch IMO. I look forward to adding my experience with the inspector for someone else to learn a thing or two
The Tunaman
fossil said:
The little brown haired lady I am married to. Only female I know that thinks steel stoves look great.
Hearthman is apparently gone, but I did want to comment on the "blowouts" and "truckloads of oatmeal" dangers he asserts in regard to poured in place liners in case someone is frightened away from considering them because of these alleged horrors. First, unless the installers are incredibly careless they would not attempt to pour into a chimney in such poor condition that a "blowout" is a possibility. Second, the mixture is pumped in slowly and experienced operaters carefully monitor the pour and know instantly if it is seeping somewhere it does not belong. (Mine oozed out of an ancient, hidden thimble, but it was quickly found and corrected. Third, at no time is a "truckload" of mix pumped in all at once. It goes in stages with pauses to allow for solidification before adding more. Fourth, the mixture will seep into places where the mortar between bricks is missing, but it is a very dry mix and barely flows on its own. This characteristic of filling voids in mortar and brick is precisely how it strengthens the chimney overall. All the foregoing applies to the Supaflu system, but I assume the others are very similar.
I have a little blonde haired lady who thinks steel stoves are ugly! How can I trade for one of these brown haired ladies you speak so highly of?
hh: RickFOLLOW UP!
So I talked to the town building inspector who states that if a chimney sweep says my liner is void of cracks & can be certified by a chimney sweep then I do NOT need a liner with the terracotta tiles. It would have been nice for the chimney sweep people to have said that.
Does this sound accurate to people? I can't get two "professionals" to say what up to code is! My next step is to get a stove & try to find someone who will install it which is damn near impossible. Any recommendations on installers north of boston?
On a side note I'm looking at a VC catalytic encore in the sand color used for about $500 lightly used since 1994.
Mike
By the way: My blonde haired lady likes the look of a sand stove much better
So I talked to the town building inspector who states that if a chimney sweep says my liner is void of cracks & can be certified by a chimney sweep then I do NOT need a liner with the terracotta tiles. It would have been nice for the chimney sweep people to have said that.
Does this sound accurate to people? I can't get two "professionals" to say what up to code is! My next step is to get a stove & try to find someone who will install it which is damn near impossible. Any recommendations on installers north of boston?
On a side note I'm looking at a VC catalytic encore in the sand color used for about $500 lightly used since 1994.
Mike
By the way: My blonde haired lady likes the look of a sand stove much better
- Jun 12, 2006
- 1,053
I would grab the encore and count myself luck! I'd beg for the info but I'm to far away to haul it!
How tall is your chimney? Is it tall enough on it's own to meet the intended stove install manual requirement? I needed to extend mine almost 6'. I added 3' of Class A to the top so I could easily take it off for cleaning from the roof with out a ladder. Looks fine, works well.
Good luck !
Mike P
How tall is your chimney? Is it tall enough on it's own to meet the intended stove install manual requirement? I needed to extend mine almost 6'. I added 3' of Class A to the top so I could easily take it off for cleaning from the roof with out a ladder. Looks fine, works well.
Good luck !
Mike P
tunaman4u2 said:FOLLOW UP!...My blonde haired lady likes the look of a sand stove much better
OK, tuna, sand it is then. I, for one, certainly understand that concept. (BTW, I understand L.L. Bean has a line of sand-colored men's briefs...just trying to help out any way I can here.
) Rick
Stove paint in a boatload of colors is nine to ten bucks a can. Takes two cans to to put four or five coats on a stove.
(broken link removed to http://www.forrestpaint.com/SB-SBCC_w_text.html)
(broken link removed to http://www.forrestpaint.com/SB-SBCC_w_text.html)
Tuna,
Seems like an awful lot of grief, but in 33 posts this thread has come back to its starting point. You still don't know what you have (for sure), and therefore can't know how to proceed.May I suggest that you hire a certified/licensed/insured/contractor to perform a level 2 inspection of your chimney. This should include a closed circuit video scan of the flue interior and every tile and joint.You should be provided a concise and accurate report detailing every observable facet.Level inspections are dealt with and described fully in NFPA-211.I know of no other standard as widely recognized for this kind of work. It seems that your inspector is requiring exactly what I had predicted before, that is. someone besides himself to state their case and assume the liability.I honestly wish you the very best and a cure for your "flue". If it weren't so far away I'd offer my services, and almost nothing dislodges me from the Old Dominion.
blackgooseJT
Seems like an awful lot of grief, but in 33 posts this thread has come back to its starting point. You still don't know what you have (for sure), and therefore can't know how to proceed.May I suggest that you hire a certified/licensed/insured/contractor to perform a level 2 inspection of your chimney. This should include a closed circuit video scan of the flue interior and every tile and joint.You should be provided a concise and accurate report detailing every observable facet.Level inspections are dealt with and described fully in NFPA-211.I know of no other standard as widely recognized for this kind of work. It seems that your inspector is requiring exactly what I had predicted before, that is. someone besides himself to state their case and assume the liability.I honestly wish you the very best and a cure for your "flue". If it weren't so far away I'd offer my services, and almost nothing dislodges me from the Old Dominion.
blackgooseJT
I have to agree with you bro,
I've contacted the fire department, town building inspector, local chimney sweep, a local contractor & my home owners insurance.
All 5 have no clue what 211 code even is.
Next step: Master Chimney Sweepers in Massachusetts who's website actually talks about 211 code. I'll update the group again to see if anybody in Massachusetts has a clue, so far no such luck.
Heres their site: http://www.masterchimney.com/
Hopefully they can install my VC stove too. It makes sense for them to do that for my future sweeping business, buying the pipe & the hearth pad. I've come across tons of places that WON'T install stoves they don't sell
I do have a stove & a cord of wood as of today though so it wasn't all wasted!
As for the paint with the Englander stove... I think the blonde haired lady wanted some design. Her exact words she used for the stove was eyesore. I loved it though. Someone has to go get those 2 stoves in Seabrook, NH home depot for 899 taxfree.
I've contacted the fire department, town building inspector, local chimney sweep, a local contractor & my home owners insurance.
All 5 have no clue what 211 code even is.
Next step: Master Chimney Sweepers in Massachusetts who's website actually talks about 211 code. I'll update the group again to see if anybody in Massachusetts has a clue, so far no such luck.
Heres their site: http://www.masterchimney.com/
Hopefully they can install my VC stove too. It makes sense for them to do that for my future sweeping business, buying the pipe & the hearth pad. I've come across tons of places that WON'T install stoves they don't sell
I do have a stove & a cord of wood as of today though so it wasn't all wasted!
As for the paint with the Englander stove... I think the blonde haired lady wanted some design. Her exact words she used for the stove was eyesore. I loved it though. Someone has to go get those 2 stoves in Seabrook, NH home depot for 899 taxfree.
Good ole Massachusetts
Finally the only place to quote me an install price! Mass Chimney Sweepers. They wanted about 3,500 to line my chimney with single layer pipe & get the stove in. They said they didn't want to do 1/2 ass work by not lining the chimney but didn't say that installing the stove without the SS liner was illegal. Thats the ONLY place that will even do the job & I've called 10 local contractors & sweepers
Despite the town building inspector not needing the SS liner, they won't do the job without it. Without a chimney sweeper inspection report however, the town building inspector won't sign off on the project so I can't do it myself either.
What does that leave? Broken dreams of having a nice wood stove. More American red tape preventing the individual from reducing his reliance on foreign oil.
Good times!
Last ditch effort would be to see what a propane stove install would cost if I found a cheap gas stove
A sad Tunaman
Finally the only place to quote me an install price! Mass Chimney Sweepers. They wanted about 3,500 to line my chimney with single layer pipe & get the stove in. They said they didn't want to do 1/2 ass work by not lining the chimney but didn't say that installing the stove without the SS liner was illegal. Thats the ONLY place that will even do the job & I've called 10 local contractors & sweepers
Despite the town building inspector not needing the SS liner, they won't do the job without it. Without a chimney sweeper inspection report however, the town building inspector won't sign off on the project so I can't do it myself either.
What does that leave? Broken dreams of having a nice wood stove. More American red tape preventing the individual from reducing his reliance on foreign oil.
Good times!
Last ditch effort would be to see what a propane stove install would cost if I found a cheap gas stove
A sad Tunaman
Good luck.
My chimney has never been used, but house was built in 1952.
County does not require any permit.
Insurance company said to put in by code.
My chimney is 11 x 11 and has a Tera cotter linear. I am ruining a 6" flex linear with insulation to meet code.
Every thing else is installed according to stove specs, took pictures and kept all receipts in case there ever was a problem.
Most local places would not install a stove unless I bought it from them.
Bought a Woodstock stove. Can not wait till this winter.
My chimney has never been used, but house was built in 1952.
County does not require any permit.
Insurance company said to put in by code.
My chimney is 11 x 11 and has a Tera cotter linear. I am ruining a 6" flex linear with insulation to meet code.
Every thing else is installed according to stove specs, took pictures and kept all receipts in case there ever was a problem.
Most local places would not install a stove unless I bought it from them.
Bought a Woodstock stove. Can not wait till this winter.
Tuna,
Sorry to hear your current news. Were you able to hire out for a level 2 inspection, or was this a phone quote for a liner/stove install/package deal?I don't know your area but around here things are a little slow for most folks. Maybe these fellows have all the work they want.I also don't know what prices are in your area, or what their cost of doing business is, but $3,500.00 is a hefty chunk of change.
So far I have been able to offer zero useful help. Would you indulge me one last attempt?If you would go to csia.org and look up both certified sweeps in your area, and throughout your state. I can't believe that there isn't someone relatively near to you who couldn't scan and inspect your flue. A stainless steel lining makes for the best install, but they are not always required. If your existing liner is within size limits, well constructed and without damage, you should be able to use it.Your inspector has already given you that "out"
If you are forced to concede I will be dissappointed, but not as much as you will be..
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
blackgooseJT
Sorry to hear your current news. Were you able to hire out for a level 2 inspection, or was this a phone quote for a liner/stove install/package deal?I don't know your area but around here things are a little slow for most folks. Maybe these fellows have all the work they want.I also don't know what prices are in your area, or what their cost of doing business is, but $3,500.00 is a hefty chunk of change.
So far I have been able to offer zero useful help. Would you indulge me one last attempt?If you would go to csia.org and look up both certified sweeps in your area, and throughout your state. I can't believe that there isn't someone relatively near to you who couldn't scan and inspect your flue. A stainless steel lining makes for the best install, but they are not always required. If your existing liner is within size limits, well constructed and without damage, you should be able to use it.Your inspector has already given you that "out"
If you are forced to concede I will be dissappointed, but not as much as you will be..
"Illegitimi non carborundum"
blackgooseJT
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