Clearance on non-combustable wall

[emory]

I've found a good price on a new, Englander 30-NCP. My current hearth is exactly 28" deep. The wall is granite and then concrete. I am worried about how close this would be cutting it as the Englanders pedestal is 24" deep and the total depth of the unit, including rear heat shield is 28". I'm also not taking into consideration that I will need some sort of adapter to go from 8" to 6" flue collar.

 

[jtp10181]

Even if you place the stove against the back wall (bad idea IMO) you would still need to extend your hearth.

 

[webbie]

Need more info - does adapter go on top or rear (where is chimney)....

If wall is 100% non-combustible, and has earth on the other side (dirt), AND the stove sounds like it has a double wall rear - well, it would then seem as if you could go right against....

Of course, you do need to 18" non-combustible hearth in front as jt mentions.

 

[BrotherBart]

Clearances are to combustibles and the last time I checked granite and concrete aren't combustible lately. My 30-NCL sits back in the fireplace to within two inches of the back wall.

Now if you are talking about a freestanding hearth you are going to have to be concerned about how close the pipe is to the wall going up. And either way you have some work to do getting a hearth laid down for front clearance. That pup does throw a bunch of radiant heat down on the floor in front of the door. Even with my raised hearth. Blame that big glass in the door for that.

Toss us a pic of where the stove would be installed. Sounds like a basement.

 

[elkimmeg]

IO don't know if this response will be edited but a stove need a certain amount of space to dissipate heat placing it against a wall does not allow free air flow and heat dissipation from the stove you could overheat it.

 

[BrotherBart]

IO don't know if this response will be edited but a stove need a certain amount of space to dissipate heat placing it against a wall does not allow free air flow and heat dissipation from the stove you could overheat it. But What I typing could be edited and modified and my answer may not reflect my true thoughts At this point I don't know how to respond and help fellow posters, All other posters can tell it like it is but me my post are sanctioned edited and deleted without explanations

While you are being mistreated I will add that the heat shield in the back of the 30 lets plenty of convention air up through it to keep the back of it cool enough to not overheat the stove. The blower motor housing on the heat shield on mine sitting back in that fireplace actually stays cool to the touch when the blower isn't running. Amazed me.

Which reminds me. If he is ever planning to put a blower on that stove then that is another six inches or so that is gonna be needed behind it.

 

[webbie]

Not being familiar with the exact stove - elk is right that a RADIANT stove would need some room to breathe. However, if this already has an inch or two and then a heat shield built in, that ends up serving the purpose (IMHO). Ideally, you could leave another 1 or 2 inches from the shield to the wall just to keep the air convecting (flowing) there.

Hopefully, one of the two board members who work at Englander will chip in here.

 

[Gooserider]

As mentioned, you should have at least SOME clearance between a stove and any sort of wall, combustible or not. I would say 4" is minimum, 6" is better. More significantly, I would say is that you are going to need to extend your hearth in ANY case, as you are required to have 18" of protected floor in front of the loading door. If the stove is 28" deep, you will need a MINIMUM of 46" depth on the hearth, PLUS whatever rear clearance you give.

Gooserider

 

[webbie]

Goose, I think your numbers are valid for a radiant stove, but the built-in heat shield changes the equation.....

This is probably not a code situation in any way, so it simply then a matter of experience and common sense. BB burns the exact stove and is saying he can touch the blower mounted on the back when it is not running. My guess is that normal temps of 125-225 degrees would be seen on the rear heat shield - maybe a bit higher toward the top...these are temperatures seen on hot water heating pipes! 1 or 2 inches away from that would be plenty. Consider that the outside of a class A metal chimney sees temperatures that are quite hot (much hotter than 200 - maybe metal can tell us exactly what they are) and a 2" clearances does the job there - to wood!

My bottom line is that I would purchase and use that stove for that purpose myself and be happy with an inch or two - unless the manual or manufacturer cautioned against it.

 

[Gooserider]

Goose, I think your numbers are valid for a radiant stove, but the built-in heat shield changes the equation.....

This is probably not a code situation in any way, so it simply then a matter of experience and common sense. BB burns the exact stove and is saying he can touch the blower mounted on the back when it is not running. My guess is that normal temps of 125-225 degrees would be seen on the rear heat shield - maybe a bit higher toward the top...these are temperatures seen on hot water heating pipes! 1 or 2 inches away from that would be plenty. Consider that the outside of a class A metal chimney sees temperatures that are quite hot (much hotter than 200 - maybe metal can tell us exactly what they are) and a 2" clearances does the job there - to wood!

My bottom line is that I would purchase and use that stove for that purpose myself and be happy with an inch or two - unless the manual or manufacturer cautioned against it.

Could be, I'd still feel better with 4-6", but that's me... More important though is the need for the extension in FRONT of the stove - the OP needs to get 18" in front of the loading door, and dropping a 28" deep stove on a 28" deep hearth isn't going to get that. Thus the OP needs a hearth extension, in order to get a minimum of 46" plus whatever he decides to use for clearance in the back. (And note that BB says that regardless of the shield temp, you need more clearance to mount the blower...)

Gooserider

 

[emory]

Here's a quick picture of the hearth, note, in front of the stove there is a small rug that we remove in the winter.

 

[BrotherBart]

The 30 is a very big stove. I can't see it fitting on that hearth any way but sideways which wouldn't be the most attractive thing in the world. Here is a pic to give you some perspective on the heat shield and blower when we had mine in front of the shop for the outdoor burn-in.

 

[Highbeam]

I see the sheetrock nails. So what's it nailed too? Is there sheetrock behind the stone? Wow BB, that is one big stove.

 

[webbie]

It may be possible to install, but it is not gonna look good! A "sideways" stove like the existing one would fit better. There are lots of models which take the wood in that manner.

As other have said, no blower in any case....and, yes, if that sheetrock is nailed to wood it may raise questions. There are a lot of examples as to exactly how wide rear wall protection must be......first, look at the manual....sometimes it shows that.

In this case, I think your best answer is to email or PM one or the other of the two englander guys here - Corie or Mike.

 

[emory]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I'll pass on the Englander, which is unfortunate because I found one brand new for $400.

 

[BrotherBart]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I'll pass on the Englander, which is unfortunate because I found one brand new for $400.

Wish I was close. Secondary burn tubes, baffles, bricks and glass would come to over $500. Heck at $400 I would put the sucker down here in the office, cook breakfast on it and keep the coffee hot.

 

[Metal]

When testing for 103HT, the pipe is totally enclosed in wood and internally heated to 2100ºF; the wood (combustible) temperature cannot exceed 175ºF+ambient temperature. So if you are testing at 100ºF ambient temperature, the combustible surface cannot get hotter than 275ºF, the closer you move the combustible surface, the hotter it gets, so manufacturers move it as close as possible without going over temp. to pass the test (all manufacturers are currently 2" except for Metal-Fab which has 1.5" CTC).

So in relation to the question, when combustibles are places at the minimum CTC for a given 103HT tested vent, their maximum temperature should not exceed 175ºF + ambient temperature (unless the interior temperature is over 2100º, and in that case, you have bigger problems).

 

[webbie]

OK, understand that - but, what is the approx surface temp of the outside of your Class A pipe at the maximum test temp?
And at the normal (1000 degree) test temp?

Just trying to establish how much an inch or two (in general) lowers the radiation at those temps.