Chimney liner help

[jzimmer6]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I am a first time home buyer, My wife and I just bought a house last year that was built in 1941, is a cape cod with a center chimney with 3 flues in it. I have a fire place that I can not use due to cracking of the clay liner. I want to install a liner myself as I don't have the estimated 5 grand from 3 separate installers. I can't find any good directions on how to install the bottom termination of the liner into my firebox. All I can find is how to install it to an appliance such as a stove or insert. I want to use the original masonry firebox. I am interested in doing away with the damper on the inside of the firebox and would like to install a top mounted damper, so cutting out the damper is not an issue. How do I do this? I’m located in Defiance.

Thank you, Jason

 

[bholler]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I am a first time home buyer, My wife and I just bought a house last year that was built in 1941, is a cape cod with a center chimney with 3 flues in it. I have a fire place that I can not use due to cracking of the clay liner. I want to install a liner myself as I don't have the estimated 5 grand from 3 separate installers. I can't find any good directions on how to install the bottom termination of the liner into my firebox. All I can find is how to install it to an appliance such as a stove or insert. I want to use the original masonry firebox. I am interested in doing away with the damper on the inside of the firebox and would like to install a top mounted damper, so cutting out the damper is not an issue. How do I do this? I’m located in Defiance.

Thank you, Jason

Well first off do you have room for a properly sized liner inside the old clay ones? That is usually the biggest problem with relining an open fireplace

 

[HomeinPA]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I am a first time home buyer, My wife and I just bought a house last year that was built in 1941, is a cape cod with a center chimney with 3 flues in it. I have a fire place that I can not use due to cracking of the clay liner. I want to install a liner myself as I don't have the estimated 5 grand from 3 separate installers. I can't find any good directions on how to install the bottom termination of the liner into my firebox. All I can find is how to install it to an appliance such as a stove or insert. I want to use the original masonry firebox. I am interested in doing away with the damper on the inside of the firebox and would like to install a top mounted damper, so cutting out the damper is not an issue. How do I do this? I’m located in Defiance.

Thank you, Jason

Note to all you potential home buyers out there just reading through the comments ...... This is exactly why you get the chimney inspected BEFORE you close on the house. These repairs could have been negotiated on before making the offer and in the case of flue fire damage, the previous homeowner's insurance may have covered the repairs! Then all you have to negotiate is the deductible. Depending on the scope of the work needed, a correctly installed fireplace reline will easily start at 3000 dollars and go up from there.

 

[double-d]

First thing is to get some dimensions, Fireplace opening size, height and width, then is the chimney height more or less than 25'.
Then you can go the Hearth .com site and plug in your numbers.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/articles/calculators.32/category

This will tell you the size of liner needed. It may say 12" liner, that represents a 12" round liner and your flue may be 11 x 11". A 12" round liner is equal to 113 sq in area, so you would need to find an Oval, Rectangle or Square liner that will fit your flue opening and have that 113 Sq in area. In this case a 10.5 x 10.5 square liner is equal to a 12" liner.

Shaped liners are not very flexible so you may need to stand a 20' liner straight up in the air and lower it down into the flue. Once in place a Bottom Plate is sometimes used to attach to the bottom of the liner and help seal off the gap between the new liner and the old flue. Then using some refractory cement you can cover that to keep the gases from going up between the new liner and old flue. Never an easy spot to reach or get to.
Like mentioned above it will be expensive.

 

[bholler]

First thing is to get some dimensions, Fireplace opening size, height and width, then is the chimney height more or less than 25'.
Then you can go the Hearth .com site and plug in your numbers.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/articles/calculators.32/category

This will tell you the size of liner needed. It may say 12" liner, that represents a 12" round liner and your flue may be 11 x 11". A 12" round liner is equal to 113 sq in area, so you would need to find an Oval, Rectangle or Square liner that will fit your flue opening and have that 113 Sq in area. In this case a 10.5 x 10.5 square liner is equal to a 12" liner.

Shaped liners are not very flexible so you may need to stand a 20' liner straight up in the air and lower it down into the flue. Once in place a Bottom Plate is sometimes used to attach to the bottom of the liner and help seal off the gap between the new liner and the old flue. Then using some refractory cement you can cover that to keep the gases from going up between the new liner and old flue. Never an easy spot to reach or get to.
Like mentioned above it will be expensive.

All right other than you dont want refractory cement. You want to use a product like chambertech

 

[jzimmer6]

The services that came out estimated a 6 inch flexible liner at 25 feet

 

[bholler]

The services that came out estimated a 6 inch flexible liner at 25 feet

That will never work for an open fireplace

 

[jzimmer6]

That will never work for an open fireplace

I wonder why that is what they estimated for, makes me really curious about what they want to do

 

[HomeinPA]

The services that came out estimated a 6 inch flexible liner at 25 feet

GOOD LORD!! Get another company out there to look at it. Anybody that suggests a 6" liner for a fireplace should NOT be relining chimneys! Are you sure he was talking about the fireplace and not the furnace flue??

 

[jzimmer6]

Has to be, the furnace is a HE that vents through the wall, not even the chimney.

 

[bholler]

Has to be, the furnace is a HE that vents through the wall, not even the chimney.

Find a different company that has a clue. You need a 10 to 1 ratio between the opening of the fireplace and the area of the flue.

 

[jzimmer6]

Okay, I just went back through all of my estimates and here is one that I found, this place has estimated a 10 inch liner. My apologies for the confusion, I read the first estimate incorrectly, but the price points were the same for the companies with only about 200 dollars difference.

 

[HomeinPA]

Okay, I just went back through all of my estimates and here is one that I found, this place has estimated a 10 inch liner. My apologies for the confusion, I read the first estimate incorrectly, but the price points were the same for the companies with only about 200 dollars difference.

I gotta raise my prices. Or move out to Ohio.

 

[jzimmer6]

I gotta raise my prices. Or move out to Ohio.

What does a service like this cost where you are?

 

[HomeinPA]

What does a service like this cost where you are?

I'm not trying to be evasive but there are way many factors that would disqualify any attempt at quoting a price to reline your fireplace. For all I know he's using an aerial lift to get the liner down the chimney. 25 feet of 10" liner is a lot of material. I think I mentioned on another discussion that relining a fireplace STARTS at 3000 and goes up from there.

 

[jzimmer6]

So is this something that I can do as a project with me a few buddies? Or just bite the bullet and pay 5 grand? If I can get as much information as possible on how to do the bottom termination in the smoke chamber I feel comfortable enough to try it, but I am very ocd to detail and I don’t do anything halfway with projects that involve anything potentially hazardous. Also would it be better off for me to put in a fireplace insert instead of using the masonry firebox?

 

[bholler]

So is this something that I can do as a project with me a few buddies? Or just bite the bullet and pay 5 grand? If I can get as much information as possible on how to do the bottom termination in the smoke chamber I feel comfortable enough to try it, but I am very ocd to detail and I don’t do anything halfway with projects that involve anything potentially hazardous. Also would it be better off for me to put in a fireplace insert instead of using the masonry firebox?

Why not consider an insert that will actually give you some useable heat

 

[HomeinPA]

So is this something that I can do as a project with me a few buddies? Or just bite the bullet and pay 5 grand? If I can get as much information as possible on how to do the bottom termination in the smoke chamber I feel comfortable enough to try it, but I am very ocd to detail and I don’t do anything halfway with projects that involve anything potentially hazardous. Also would it be better off for me to put in a fireplace insert instead of using the masonry firebox?

IMHO, this is not something for a DIY project. I'm basing that primarily on the estimate that indicates 2 things - 25 feet of 10" liner and removal of existing tiles. 30 feet of the ground on a pitched roof, even 4:12, is not the place to learn to wrangle a liner into place and tile removal requires specialized tools and experience or you could end up knocking a hole in the chimney or another flue. Throw in clearance questions, masonry work that will need to be finished and who knows what else you'll run into....hell, the hospital bill alone for slipping off the roof would dwarf what you'd have paid these guys.

Now purchasing a wood stove fireplace insert - with the proper guidance that can be accomplished with relative ease with a couple moderately competent individuals. Shoot, my competition has even pulled it off a couple times without hurting each other! In the end you're going to be a lot happier with the heat that the insert gives you and it'll be done a lot quicker.

 

[jzimmer6]

I was told by insurance that it would increase my insurance significantly

 

[HomeinPA]

I was told by insurance that it would increase my insurance significantly

Get another quote from someone else!! Just like you did with the repairs! There is no reason for a significant increase if it's a listed appliance and installed to code. Someone else is doing an insert on another discussion and their insurance company said as long as it wasn't the primary heat it had little impact. I'm thinking they were in Ohio too but I'm not certain.

 

[bholler]

I agree find a different insurance company. There are many out there who will not bump up your rates.

 

[HomeinPA]

The other guy was in Ohio. He mentioned the company was Liberty Mutual. Maybe you should call their agent. The do decent commercials! Not as good as Geico and Progressive but decent.

 

[jzimmer6]

I will definitely look into it, are there any cons with an insert vs a traditional fireplace? Also I was cruising around the web looking at some inserts and those have specs listed with a 6 inch flue, why is it smaller than what the fireplace requires?? Thank you!!

 

[HomeinPA]

I will definitely look into it, are there any cons with an insert vs a traditional fireplace? Also I was cruising around the web looking at some inserts and those have specs listed with a 6 inch flue, why is it smaller than what the fireplace requires?? Thank you!!

Because it's a wood stove not a fireplace. That's the reason it's potentially easier for a DIY'er to do. Time does not allow me to go into all the specifics of why unless you're looking for a job in which case we can set up an apprenticeship for you and I can teach you the whys and wherefores of some things but in a nutshell - A wood stove doesn't require as much air to properly burn the fire. Less air - less exhaust - smaller flue.

 

[jzimmer6]

Thank you guys so much Is there a recommended insert style. I found a kit on Northern tools that included the flue liner for about 1500 and the stove and necessary parts and accessories