chain advice

[fbelec]

i've never sharpened a chain. last year i thought i would go and buy the tool that does tooth and raker at the same time. i got the husky tool for my husky saw. i haven't done a good job at all. it started last year when i hit a piece of cement hidden under the pile of logs that i was cutting. hasn't been the same since. i try using the tool but the only thing that i managed to do was to make the saw cut a c shape instead of a straight cut. stopped the c cut but now the saw cuts with nice big chips instead of dust, but stops cutting after it gets into the log about a inch, then the motor revs high and does nothing. could this be the raker are not filed down enough?
btw i tried about 8 times to sharpen this chain with no success. i figured i'd be ok with the do it all tool that was made for dummy's. i feel like a dope reading the forum and going to web sites and not understanding what i'm doing wrong. what i did notice and this is why i'm asking about the rakers is that when i'm using the chain tool it seems that the flat file is not covering the whole raker. could this be my problem?

thanks
frank

 

[oldspark]

Are you sure you have the file high enough on the tooth, some times the file is too low and the chain starts out sharp and then dulls right away, don't feel bad I been cutting wood for 30 years and lately I have been having problems getting my chains sharp.

 

[smokinj]

sounds more like your rakers are to low at this point I would have a pro tru it all back up and have them answer your questions...Once put on a machine its easy to tell whats wrong...Do you not have a depth gauge?

 

[webie]

Just another idea here , get yourself a new chain and compare it to yours and see what you did wrong sharpening it . if it is way out of wack take it to a service and have it sharpened and then try again doing it your self .

 

[webie]

sounds more like your rakers are to low at this point I would have a pro tru it all back up and have them answer your questions...Once put on a machine its easy to tell whats wrong...Do you not have a depth gauge?

If the rakers were to low I would think he would stall the saw chain .

 

[smokinj]

sounds more like your rakers are to low at this point I would have a pro tru it all back up and have them answer your questions...Once put on a machine its easy to tell whats wrong...Do you not have a depth gauge?

If the rakers were to low I would think he would stall the saw chain .

hes throwing nice chips at first and then down to nothing sounds like to big of a bit...But best to put it on a machine and reset all the cutter and check the rakers...One drive length at a time because there is more than likely a few issues. 3 off the top of my head and could be more if I had it on my bench!

 

[fbelec]

old spark: i'm not sure. everything is preset on the tool.

webie and smokingjay: it's funny. it starts out well then stops throwing chips and starts throwing saw dust. might be a good idea about buying a new chain and comparing. the bad thing is if i were to sharpen to many times i wouldn't know when it was time to say good bye to the chain. i was hoping that i didn't take it to far.

 

[oldspark]

old spark: i'm not sure. everything is preset on the tool.

webie and smokingjay: it's funny. it starts out well then stops throwing chips and starts throwing saw dust. might be a good idea about buying a new chain and comparing. the bad thing is if i were to sharpen to many times i wouldn't know when it was time to say good bye to the chain. i was hoping that i didn't take it to far.

Take a look at this site and see if any thing looks like it could be the problem. (broken link removed to http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/SharpAdvice061301final.pdf)

 

[wendell]

I only file my rakers about every 5th sharpening so if you are using the multi file, your rakers are probably too low. It sounds to me like you have WAY too much hook on the cutter so it starts cutting and then dulls immediately.

What type of chain do you have? The Husqvarna combi guide is for full chisel so if you are using it on semi or safety, you are most likely not getting the correct angles. Even when you are using a guide, you can mess up your stroke. Make sure each stroke is perfectly straight. It is easy to finish the stoke with a little waggle, undoing what you just did on the rest of the stoke.

 

[smokinj]

old spark: i'm not sure. everything is preset on the tool.

webie and smokingjay: it's funny. it starts out well then stops throwing chips and starts throwing saw dust. might be a good idea about buying a new chain and comparing. the bad thing is if i were to sharpen to many times i wouldn't know when it was time to say good bye to the chain. i was hoping that i didn't take it to far.

I am sure its worth resharpening when you hit something like concrete even a good hand filer could great them fits

 

[fbelec]

I only file my rakers about every 5th sharpening so if you are using the multi file, your rakers are probably too low. It sounds to me like you have WAY too much hook on the cutter so it starts cutting and then dulls immediately.

What type of chain do you have? The Husqvarna combi guide is for full chisel so if you are using it on semi or safety, you are most likely not getting the correct angles. Even when you are using a guide, you can mess up your stroke. Make sure each stroke is perfectly straight. It is easy to finish the stoke with a little waggle, undoing what you just did on the rest of the stoke.

not sure of the chain. it came with the saw. it's a husky 345. when i bought the chain tool i bought it from the same store my saw came from. the guy there is very knowledgeable on all the power tools he sells. i asked him when i bought the tool if it were the right file for the chain and after telling him that it was the chain that came with the saw he gave me the file for that chain. i guess i'll read the pdf file from stihl and see if i can pick out anything there. the tools says use it at a 35 degree angle. i think i'm doing that, but then again i could be wrong. as far as the chain dulling after it starts, when it stops chipping and starts the saw dust, i can start a new cut and it does the same thing then start a 3rd cut and it does the same thing, starts cutting the stops.

 

[kevin j]

so it is not getting dull and refusing to cut ever again? It will cut again and again in a fresh spot for the first inch into the wood? You may have a burr or bend on the bar or a chain too narrow for the bar width? Once it gets down into the wood, the bar drags on the sides of the kerf?

what diameter of wood is that? is the 1 inch depth of cut related to the diameter of wood? I.e. if it cuts one inch down into a 16 inch round, will it stop at one inch on a 4 inch rounde or go all the way through? I am suspecting the bar, but may be the depth gauges are too high and it will attack a smaller diameter log deeper than a larger radius one.

Don't know of what tool all in one you speak, but I would separate the tasks: use a guide and proper file diameter to get the angles and depth correct. Then use the separate gauge and flat file to set depth gauges. A flat gauge gives a constant depth setting, which is not a constant cutting attack angle as the tooth wears way back. That is a whole nuther subject best addressed later.

above all, don't get discouraged and give up. It is not black art, just physical effects that can be understood. Sure the perfect racing chain is black art, but getting from a dull chain to a pretty good chain is easy enough to learn and you will be very satisfied when you cut with shaqrp chain, especially next to your neighbor with the beat up chain.

k

 

[savageactor7]

...saw cuts with nice big chips instead of dust, but stops cutting after it gets into the log about a inch, then the motor revs high and does nothing...

Huh ...that's got me stumped but all my experience is with pro chain. You may have a safety chain issue going on some of us are unfamiliar with. Somethings not right so ...don't try and force the saw threw it.

Do any of your neighbors cut wood? Many times experience is the best teacher and if you were to hook up with someone that has done this for a few years...everything gets explained in understandable terms.

Here in CNY an extracurricular educational cooperative resource exists called BOCES. They would occasionally offer night courses on chainsaw safety and maintenance...You'd love going there a few nights a week for 6 weeks or so. What a wealth of information, anyways good luck with that chain.

 

[wendell]

If it is the chain that came with the saw, it is some type of safety chain. I would buy a new full or semi chisel chain and start over. I would also give the bar a good looking at. Hitting that cement might have done some damage to both chain and bar.

 

[southbound]

Is the oilier working???

Sounds to me the bar is getting hot after it gets in the cut..

 

[fbelec]

hi guys thanks for all this help.

kevin j: doesn't matter the size. i was trying to cut 4 inch dia. this time. last year before i tried to sharpen this year i could get thru anything smaller than six inches. anything bigger than six inches it would try making a L or go to one side instead of a straight cut.

savageactor7: when i have to buy wood i buy it from the guy around the corner from my house. i haven't seen him to ask if he could explain to me how to do it. he is a arborist. his main tool for 40 hours a week is a chain saw. but having not seen him around i could wait. and yes for me the best way for me to learn anything is to do it.

wendell: last year i did get the bar hot, as i ran out of bar oil in the middle of a cut. i was getting a little more than two tanks of gas to one tank of bar oil and that was consistent, but then ran out in the middle of that cut and check and fill both tanks at the same time everytime. not sure if i did any damage to the bar. i know alot of the paint that was on the bar got taken off after that episode.

southbound: the oiler is working.


frank

 

[southbound]

For me and this is just my opinion 2 tanks of fuel to one tank of oil is not enough oil.. I'm still stuck on a tank of oil every tank of fuel mix...

 

[kevin j]

ok, you said you stopped the C cutting, but I assumed that to mean you could cut a straight line through a log. Did it really mean the curved cutting changed to this only cut in one inch scenario?
If the curve is much worse, then it may appear to be straight for an inch, but curving until the bar binds on the side of the cut.

Best if someone could see it in person. can you post pics of chain and bar and cutters close up? and a cut as far as you can go?

Go to stihl or carlton or oregon sites for a wealth of info on chain filing and bar maintenance.
Most common causes of curved cutting are cutters on one side unevenly filed and cutting more aggressive on one side, bar groove woen down until drives hit bottom of groove instead of riding on the tie straps on top of the rails, or bar groove worn unevenly. Either groove is too wide or rails are uneven height due to wear. Easily corrected with flat file or belt sander. If the groove is not deep enough, the bar is toast.

I would start from the basics:
-inspect bar for flat, groove width, rail height, burrs.
-Chain for uniform tooth sizes, equal number (or 1 off if it a certain driver length) of teeth alternating right and left (don't laugh, it can happen during the splicing process to have several more teeth on one side than the other.) Equal tooth length.

 

[webie]

ok, you said you stopped the C cutting, but I assumed that to mean you could cut a straight line through a log. Did it really mean the curved cutting changed to this only cut in one inch scenario?
If the curve is much worse, then it may appear to be straight for an inch, but curving until the bar binds on the side of the cut.

Best if someone could see it in person. can you post pics of chain and bar and cutters close up? and a cut as far as you can go?

Go to stihl or carlton or oregon sites for a wealth of info on chain filing and bar maintenance.
Most common causes of curved cutting are cutters on one side unevenly filed and cutting more aggressive on one side, bar groove woen down until drives hit bottom of groove instead of riding on the tie straps on top of the rails, or bar groove worn unevenly. Either groove is too wide or rails are uneven height due to wear. Easily corrected with flat file or belt sander. If the groove is not deep enough, the bar is toast.

I would start from the basics:
-inspect bar for flat, groove width, rail height, burrs.
-Chain for uniform tooth sizes, equal number (or 1 off if it a certain driver length) of teeth alternating right and left (don't laugh, it can happen during the splicing process to have several more teeth on one side than the other.) Equal tooth length.

+1 keven I was in the middle of just about replying on this and got dragged away here for a few hours . I am thinking the same thing he is cutting on one side .
What I think he should try is fire up the saw rev it up and kinda let the saw do its thing and see if it cuts stright or if it is turning , My bet its turning and he is forceing it straight till it hits about an inch and it binds up .

 

[fbelec]

you guys got me second guessing. i might be forcing it to cut straight i don't know. i was trying to go thru a 4 inch log so it's a little tuff to figure if it's straight or not with that size because i had to fight it for the next three inches. i'll see if my camara will do a close shot. first generation digital camara 3.2 megapixel sony. not a very good one. but i'll see what i can do. i'm also going to have to take the saw apart for cleaning. a little dirty and the stop button decided that it didn't want to work any more.

frank

 

[smokinj]

you guys got me second guessing. i might be forcing it to cut straight i don't know. i was trying to go thru a 4 inch log so it's a little tuff to figure if it's straight or not with that size because i had to fight it for the next three inches. i'll see if my camara will do a close shot. first generation digital camara 3.2 megapixel sony. not a very good one. but i'll see what i can do. i'm also going to have to take the saw apart for cleaning. a little dirty and the stop button decided that it didn't want to work any more.

frank

It doesnt matter if your forcing it or not should still cut straight..................A chain and guessing doesn't work.

 

[southbound]

you guys got me second guessing. i might be forcing it to cut straight i don't know. i was trying to go thru a 4 inch log so it's a little tuff to figure if it's straight or not with that size because i had to fight it for the next three inches. i'll see if my camara will do a close shot. first generation digital camara 3.2 megapixel sony. not a very good one. but i'll see what i can do. i'm also going to have to take the saw apart for cleaning. a little dirty and the stop button decided that it didn't want to work any more.

frank

Flip your bar over and see if it curves the other way...............

 

[savageactor7]

fbelec don't get mad at this suggestion but...make sure the chain isn't on backwards. I was re-reading your post and was thinking about why the engine would rev up as the chain stopped cutting.

And as long as you're gonna flip the bar ...with a bare hand carefully feel along all edges of the bar for any burrs that curve around the edge. Take a flat file to them.

 

[southbound]

here the dealer will dress a bar for $2.50 and sharpen a chain for $3...

 

[southbound]

fbelec don't get mad at this suggestion but...make sure the chain isn't on backwards. I was re-reading your post and was thinking about why the engine would rev up as the chain stopped cutting.

Never over look the simple..

Some pic's would really help..Hard to guess anything without seeing...