buying seasoned wood is it possible?

[kwikrp]

I am looking to purchase 2 cords. I have called a couple of stove shops and asked for references. I got a couple of leads, called the firewood sellers, also got some numbers from local paper, and also on craigslist. I have questioned these vendors asking is it seasoned wood and of course they all responded "YES". Then I ask well when was the wood split. They all responded basically when you order it is split. "I said well that's not truly seasoned." I said I would purchase but when the got to my house to deliver it I would take 3 random pieces and re-split and check the moisture with my meter. I f it was above 18 % then I would not accept it. One dealer told me wood should be around 20 - 22 % to burn ! And he would not send a truck out here and then have to take it back.
So I am still on the quest for some truly seasoned wood !

 

[karri0n]

The usual response is "you will never, ever, find seasoned wood from a firewood dealer. you need to cut it or buy it yourself, stack it, and let it sit"


It can be done, but it's generally a lucky find. If you're looking for a big order, this guy might help you out, but I doubt he'd go that far if it's only for 2 cords.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/52062/


As a side note:

18% is actually a bit on the low side, 20-22% is quite acceptable.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It is sad, but buying good dry wood is next to impossible. That is the reason you need to already have all of next year's wood cut, split and stacked. Better yet is to have 2 years ahead.

Bottom line is do not expect the wood sellers to do the seasoning. It just won't happen. It is up to the buyer to buy it ahead of time and then do his own seasoning.

 

[Wood Duck]

I am not a wood seller, but if I were I doubt I'd drive far to deliver to a guy who has already threatened to refuse delivery. Maybe if you offer to go to them and check the wood, that would be more acceptable.

 

[skyline]

I am not a wood seller, but if I were I doubt I'd drive far to deliver to a guy who has already threatened to refuse delivery. Maybe if you offer to go to them and check the wood, that would be more acceptable.

2nd that.

While drier is better I'm thinking that on 10 lbs of wood, a 2% difference would mean about 400 btu difference.

I'm basing this on a 10 lb piece of wood at 20% moisture would give off about 70,000 btu's - ~2000 btu used up in evaporating the 20% water.
Of if the piece started at 12.2 lbs and you dried it to 10 lbs. or 2.2 lbs (1kg) less you would be adding ~2300 btu's to your fuel source.

I'm sure someone can check my figures and see if I'm in the ball park?

 

[billb3]

Hartleys in Rochester used to, but the part of the family that had the farm put it all into trust. I haven't seen them in years.
There's someone in Fairhaven , but I know he's sold out and he had oak that was not quite a year cut, split, stacked and seasoned.


Unfortunately all the landscapers and arborists have no trouble selling whatever they have.
In the Fall.
Cut that same year.


There's a guy in Dartmouth and a guy in seekonk /swansea (you can see his operation from 195) that do the same, cut logs and split for the confirmed sale.
If you're lucky they got a head a little bit and it was split and piled up like sand in a gravel pit three weeks ago.

No good if you need it this year.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I was talking to a guy today that sells firewood as a side business. He says his oak doesn't sizzle when burnt. He sells at a premium around here of 195 a cord because of it. If it passes the sizzle test the wood would probably pass my test.

I suppose even burners have their own definition of seasoned. I suppose the only way to be happy if you buy is to get it a year or two in advance.


Matt

 

[Battenkiller]

While drier is better I'm thinking that on 10 lbs of wood, a 2% difference would mean about 400 btu difference.

I'm basing this on a 10 lb piece of wood at 20% moisture would give off about 70,000 btu's - ~2000 btu used up in evaporating the 20% water.
Of if the piece started at 12.2 lbs and you dried it to 10 lbs. or 2.2 lbs (1kg) less you would be adding ~2300 btu's to your fuel source.

I'm sure someone can check my figures and see if I'm in the ball park?

No point using figures when a perfectly good chart is available:

 

[PNWBurner]

Hmm. I dunno about that chart...

I would think that wood with 100% moisture content would be pure water not wood. And burning wood with 240% moisture would be pretty tough :bug:

Maybe I'm not reading it right though, missing a decimal point?

 

[smokinj]

It is sad, but buying good dry wood is next to impossible. That is the reason you need to already have all of next year's wood cut, split and stacked. Better yet is to have 2 years ahead.

Bottom line is do not expect the wood sellers to do the seasoning. It just won't happen. It is up to the buyer to buy it ahead of time and then do his own seasoning.

+1 if your buying wood buy now for next year....cant be any firewood dealers that still have season wood at this point...

 

[Wood Duck]

Hmm. I dunno about that chart...

I would think that wood with 100% moisture content would be pure water not wood. And burning wood with 240% moisture would be pretty tough :bug:

Maybe I'm not reading it right though, missing a decimal point?

Moisture Content must be calculated as ((weight of water)/(dry weight of wood)) x 100 so if you have the same weight of water as the dry weight of the wood, you get 100%. if the weight of the water is 2.4 times the weight of the wood, you get 240%.

 

[Jfk4th]

I am not a wood seller, but if I were I doubt I'd drive far to deliver to a guy who has already threatened to refuse delivery. Maybe if you offer to go to them and check the wood, that would be more acceptable.

Good reply here Wood Duck

I have driven to wood dealers places and it is a lot better to do that than refuse to buy when he is already there, especially if the price is good. You are wasting his gas and time, just like he is kind of wasting your time

A better way is just use the wood for next year and again if the price is good maybe it will be even cheaper during the off season and you can buy more. Refusing when he has arrived will only make you lose a dealer.

This is from experience
Four years ago I had 4 face cords delivered and was "stupid" enough to let him drop it off when I wasn't home. Well the wood was all wet, literally all wet from rain, and I specifically said this has to be dry because I am putting this right in my garage. It took forever to dry in my garage and I needed to burn the wood right away...mistake number two in my book.

So I went to the place and paid but after I gave him the cash I told him all the wood was literally wet from yesterdays rain and I will never buy wood again so you guys just lost a customer and you should help me out here to be fair. If I was told I was going to get soaking wet wood I would have looked elsewhere.....

They gave me 2 face cords free and I offered to buy another three from them (a full load from their dump truck so it was worth the drive). This wood was dry to the bone and 19% moisture...not too shabby. They even gave me a face cord of cherry alone for the price of mixed hardwood......again a nice perk since cherry is usually 20 dollars more a face cord

Even today I call them and ask about wood prices, sadly they are way too high now (100-face cord) but I won't tell anybody they have bad customer service at least ;-)

 

[azsteven]

You likely won't get well seasoned wood from a firewood dealer. The way to get some dry wood is to find someone in your town who's got a stack of firewood they cannot use. I just bought about 1 3/4 cords of very well seasoned oak (11-13% moisture) for $200. I had to borrow and truck and pick it up myself, but it was well worth it. (I found the seller advertising on craigslist, no less). Look around at your neighbor's yards. I've seen several stacks under cover, and no smoke from the chimney. Go knock on some doors, you might get lucky.

Or put an add on craigslist saying something like: "Got some firewood you don't plan to use cluttering up your garage/yard?" But the main thing is look to the non-dealer.

 

[Battenkiller]

Moisture Content must be calculated as ((weight of water)/(dry weight of wood)) x 100 so if you have the same weight of water as the dry weight of the wood, you get 100%. if the weight of the water is 2.4 times the weight of the wood, you get 240%.

You win the prize, Wood Duck.


Of course, the much larger point is still not being addressed. Looking at the chart, it is very clear that there is very little difference between the total heat output of wood at 20% MC (7800 BTU/lb dry wt.) and wood at 40% MC (7600 BTU/lb dry wt.), and that the rate of heat loss due to excess water is linear throughout the entire domain of MC values.

As you can see, there is not a 200 BTU decrease for every 2% increase in water content, but only an astoundingly low 200 BTU decrease for every 20% increase in water content. That's correct... get some green oak at 80% MC in a big enough fire to get it burning well and it will deliver all but 800 of the BTUs that an equivalent weight of three year old seasoned oak will produce.

The chart is quite accurate, and is well known in the wood energy field. It also opens up another rotten can of worms. It is based on "low heat values" rather than "high heat values". Most testing of heat energy content of wood species is done in a manner that recovers the latent heat of condensation contained in the water vapor produced as a product of combustion itself. This never happens in real life in a wood stove. Even if it does, it happens way up in you chimney where it will do no good as far as producing sensible heat (but will help to form creosote deposits). That means that studies on available heat energy in firewood that used the higher figure for oven-dried wood (8600 BTU/lb) are reporting amounts of heat that are almost 10% higher than you will ever experience in a wood stove.

Since you have no way of knowing where the data in the available tables came from, or if that data had a correction factor applied or not, you should take all such species-specific BTU estimates with a grain of salt. Bottom line - once the wood is dry, the heaviest stuff you have on hand will give you the most heat regardless of wood type.

 

[PNWBurner]

Hmm. I dunno about that chart...

I would think that wood with 100% moisture content would be pure water not wood. And burning wood with 240% moisture would be pretty tough :bug:

Maybe I'm not reading it right though, missing a decimal point?

Moisture Content must be calculated as ((weight of water)/(dry weight of wood)) x 100 so if you have the same weight of water as the dry weight of the wood, you get 100%. if the weight of the water is 2.4 times the weight of the wood, you get 240%.

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying!

 

[smokinj]

checking with a MM only gets you to the next layer of truth and that is buy now burn next year...A most good firewood dealer ran out of season wood in Nov.

 

[polaris]

It is sad, but buying good dry wood is next to impossible. That is the reason you need to already have all of next year's wood cut, split and stacked. Better yet is to have 2 years ahead.

Bottom line is do not expect the wood sellers to do the seasoning. It just won't happen. It is up to the buyer to buy it ahead of time and then do his own seasoning.

This is the real truth. Anyone expecting different will just be disapointed.
Joe

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Batten- that chart does not reflect the real world because wet wood will also burn inefficiently (i.e.- smoke and unburnt fuel goes up the chimney). So, not only does energy go into boiling water, but a bunch more potential energy goes up the stack (and some condenses) as unburnt fuel. I think the curve will be non-linear and much worse at the high moisture end in a real stove rather than a bomb calorimeter.

As evidence- look at the caption: "maximum amount of heat", etc. Anyone designs a stove giving a perfect linear response right through the moisture content of a live tree is getting no smoke at all. Follow that person around and invest in their idea.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

buying seasoned wood is it possible?

Yes.


Buy wood advertised as "seasoned" (an amorphous and meaningless word) right now, get it cribbed up in your woodshed, and it'll be ready by next winter.

 

[Highbeam]

Just last weekend I sold 2 cords of my wood. It was very dry, stove ready. I am not a wood dealer though and I wasn't trying to sell the wood but a buddy asked if I would sell any extra. So as was said before, look for the guy with way too much wood in his yard but not an actual dealer.

 

[azsteven]

Just last weekend I sold 2 cords of my wood. It was very dry, stove ready. I am not a wood dealer though and I wasn't trying to sell the wood but a buddy asked if I would sell any extra. So as was said before, look for the guy with way too much wood in his yard but not an actual dealer.

Just curious: what did you charge him, and did he pick it up?

 

[iod0816]

Personally, I certainly do feel you can buy seasoned wood. Last year, in a ditch where I wanted to save money on oil, convinced the wife in time to buy a $2200 stove (and hope it would heat the whole house as SQ FT is subjective) and located a reputable wood seller on CL, it was the middle of December in the NE. I then had the idea that I would install it myself and reconsidering the true efforts involved that was a big NOPE. After 4 quotes of $900-1000K and a saddening self (I had planned on good hit on Cigarbid after the holidays) I tried one more person who turned out great. He installed the stove, liner, damper seal, cap seal and GAVE me a cap all for $600...

Then came the wood delivery and it was white/red oak, hickory, beech, ash, birch and some other good stuff... It truly looked good, not much bark, lots of gray and I had a general idea of seasoned but no where near now, so I figured I was good. First couple of pieces burned great, then a batch of semi-seasoned stuff, hissing and bubbling. Then more, then good. I would say it was a good split of 75-25 of the seasoned to semi-seasoned, but no green. Well after the first year learning curve of burning like crazy throwing whatever in, I found this place and read tons to figure it all out (thanks btw, you all help a lot). Now I am burning much, much better picking and choosing what I burn, picking over less seasoned stuff. So I guess I got lucky in finding a good wood guy. $200 a cord, high but for what I got, how late I got it, it was perfect after reading some horror stories about the 1st year. But I guess the summation is there ARE great wood guys out there and ones that truly earn your business. Oh yea, and I was about .4/.5 cord less, told him and without a single are you sure, few days later he dropped it off.

And best of all, I got my cigars and the wife is ecstatic about 74-76 degree house! So overall, yes I had some wet pieces, yes I wanted to give up in Dec/Jan at it but once I found the good stuff, it has been cruising ever since.

Stacking this at 10 degrees is not something I ever want to do again too BTW so needless, I am going to be more than prepared this year!

 

[Battenkiller]

There's a guy in my town who calls himself "The Wood Guy". I passed by tonight on my way home, so I stopped real quick. He sells what he calls "gourmet firewood" (2-3 years old) and is open 24 hours a day (so says the sign). He has tons of wood, neatly stacked all over the place. There appears to be dates on the separate stacks. The sign says it is "$100 for a big face cord.... 43+ cu.ft. Delivered and stacked." If I ever got desperate enough to pay $300/cord for seasoned wood, this would definitely be the place I'd go. Last year I was forced to pay $240/cord for 4 cord of fresh cut white ash. If it was anything but ash, I would have used The Wood Guy instead.

For anyone who lives anywhere near Saratoga Springs, NY, his number is: (518) 584-3041

 

[Battenkiller]

Heh, heh, heh... these firewood guys are a funny lot.

I just called the Wood Guy about his firewood. He informed me that the signs I saw last night were "collector's item" signs, from 11 years ago when they first opened.

WTF?

Current prices are over twice as high. Wood is now only guaranteed 1 year seasoning. He says it is all at least down to 22% MC. At least it's burnable. Barely.

Glad I didn't go over there with a truck ready to pick some up. Today's pick up price for a "fireplace cord" is $180, $220 delivered ($260 for "aromatic cherry"). He says the fireplace cord is 3' high, 11' long and cut 16" (44 cu.ft.), so at least it is a third of a cord. That makes it $660 ($780 for cherry) a full seasoned cord, delivered to your door. That's quite a bit more per cord than the kiln-dried stuff the box stores sell, but hey... it's seasoned outdoors. He didn't seem to have too many wood stove customers, because he said that he wasn't sure a 16" split would fit inside a wood stove because most stoves can only take a 12" piece.

All I can say is that Saratoga Springs is an affluent community. These folks will buy anything. Sounds like an "ambiance only" operation.

 

[SolarAndWood]

That makes it $660 ($780 for cherry) a full seasoned cord, delivered to your door. All I can say is that Saratoga Springs is an affluent community.

I will deliver as many $660 cords as you like to Saratoga, cherry or anything else you like except for the lone oak on the property as my wife is pretty attached to it for some reason. Special pricing available on balsam fir but its moving quick.