Buying a woodlot - considerations

[Raithi]

Im looking at a 10 acre property tomorrow, at a price of $2,000 per acre. In my area thats a pretty fair price for acreage.

Topographicaly its ups and dows like a roller coaster with what looks like maybe 100 - 150 ft square the only suitable place to build.

Looks from aerial photography densely wooded. I know the area to be mostly hardwood.

Any other things to think about?

 

[jackatc1]

Do the mineral rights convey!
If not pass.

 

[Raithi]

they do not. forgot to mention that

 

[Nateums]

I'd walk away.

Aside from that, the land has to perc test for a standard septic system. In general, site work is an enormous expense to building a house.

It is very difficult to find buildable land now, most of it has already been built on, or subdivided into narrow tracts.

 

[jwfirebird]

yep, you don't want to know how much a raised bed costs or have to live with the pipes and crap.

a lot of expenses people don't think about going from nothing to living there

 

[peakbagger]

Does it have a recent survey preferably with a signed subdivision plan on file? Are the corners marked by a surveyor?. Are the property lines marked with blazes and paint.?Does the deed have a written description of the metes and bounds including reference to any intermediate monuments (monuments could be actual granite markers or iron pins in most cases) Are there any right of ways on the deed? Any existing uses by abutters that could cause squatters rights issues in the future?. Is the deed a warranty or quit claim?. Is the title represented as free and clear of liens or attachments.? (any offer should specify that it will with the exception of any already disclosed) Is the access to the lot from a public road or do you need a right of way?. If you need a right of way is it in the deed and are there restrictions to use. Any wetlands?. Does the city county or state have any planning or zoning regulations that will prevent you or someone in the future using the land the way you want to? IS the land in conservation status to reduce taxes but limits what you can do.
. Any signs of past use? (partially buried barrels, junk or signs of dumping)

I can give you horror stories for all of these.

Some old favorites

We surveyed an old farm lot on a steep slope. The deed called out plus or minus distances to iron pipes. The person who prepared the deed didnt understand horizontal distance from slope distance so the lot was called plus or minus 20 acres on the deed but it was closer to 17 acres once we corrected for horizontal distance.

Local loggers would buy up old estate lots to strip the timber off. They would take photos with the trees standing and then market it to out of staters looking for cheap land in the mountains. There would be a clause stashed somewhere in the legalese "subject to timber operations for a period of time after sale" if the potential buyer asked the real estate guy would speculate that the owner had to finish up a cut that got postponed due to some reason. The person would buy it and when he got there in the spring the lot was clearcut. The loggers frequently are LLCs with no assets so even if you could sue them they have no assets to attach. There is extended family in Vermont that does so called forestry and has been sued numerous times but after years of doing it they havent paid a dime and state law has no teeth as its civil infractions.

I know of a nice 30 acre lot with a small mountain on it with great views south to a mountain range. There is zero legal access to it, there is logging road that goes right by it but its private and there is "vengeance strip" along the road to keep the abutter from using it. Been that way since I moved up here.

I know someone who bought a rural lot, it had an old path that was grown in going into it. After they bought it they were roaming the lot and found pile of broken cement shingles. He didnt make much of it until he found out that the vast majority of cement shingles were made with asbestos. The cost for clean up was more than he paid for the lot. The prior owner claimed they didnt know anything about it so they didnt disclose it.

I was going to buy a 40 acre lot with an old house on it 2 years ago, the owners disclosure stated no asbestos and no other issues. I suspected otherwise and made offer conditional on a third party asbestos inspection. I got the report and there was quite bi t of asbestos, some visible most hidden in things like asphalt roofing tar. The easiest way to deal with it was tear the house and an adjacent garage down. Estimates were 30K, I counter offered the ownerif I had to deal with it unless unless they wanted to deal with it. They didnt accept the counter and ended up selling it for about what I would have paid if I had to mitigate. The guy who bought it is now stuck, the prior owner had to disclose asbestos once I notified them and the town is aware of it. As long as he leaves the building which has extensive black mold he doesnt have to do anything but if it falls or burns then has to have it cleaned up. The only real option is let it go for taxes and if the town isnt paying attention they will get it and then resell it with tax deed which has disclaimer that the town isnt responsible for any defect in the property.

A person I ran into bought a lot, turned out it was zoned for commercial and industrial only, there was no commercial or industrial nearby but he couldnt build private residence on it.

Many lots in NH have conservation easements on them. The owner needs cash so they sell the development and conservation rights to a third party. They still own the home and the land but pay far lower taxes. They eventually sell the lot and the new guy finds out that everything he does on the lot has to be signed off by the third party. I ran into one person on the cusp of buying on of these lots and the easement allowed logging. He checked with the third party and they had deemed that limited logging was acceptable as long as horses were used to move the logs during the winter when the ground was totally snow covered.

 

[Raithi]

Well, the building spot does look to have downhill slope adjacent for septic and leech field. The county that its in has no building codes other than state mandated epa, such as the septic. However I made some calls, they do allow you to pour your own concrete septic on site as long as it is inspected during the process (which i have been a part of before)

I have a backhoe for my 4x4 tractor, and family with alot of concrete experience willing to help out.

Even if i cant build more than a small hunting cabin there it could be worth it for marketable timber, which i will be taking stock of when I go out there.

I think I just need to walk the land to get a better idea.

 

[Sully1515]

Regarding the lot, for re-sale, what class road is it?
* Private or public (meaning, maintained in the winter)
* is the lot land-locked?
* Electric - At street, or none?
* Taxes -- Do you have a current use penalty that you need to pay? Not sure if you have current use, or something similar in your area?

Just food for thought...

 

[Raithi]

There is a right of way. 200ft access road off of the county road there already on the side that has 200ft road frontage. It buts up to a township road on the opposite side to a township road with 700ft of frontage. There are also to 50" wide easements for future power lines to the adjacent property on either side of the property.

No conservation easement. I can timber and change the land however I want.

It was surveyed this past year with gps coordinates included refferencing the set iron pins

 

[jackatc1]

Is there a Gas/Oil lease on the lot now?
Most of Eastern Ohio has a lot of Gas/Oil just waiting for the drillers and their pipelines.
Without mineral rights you have no say on drilling or pipelines,or the location of access roads,drilling pads,and timber removal
to accommodate the above mentioned.

 

[maple1]

That's a really big price for around here for woodland - so I guess I can't relate. There's around 100a on the market right now in the rear of ours, listed around $40K. Has been for sale for a year or two now, no takers. Mostly cut over around 20 years ago.

 

[peakbagger]

Every real estate market is local, depends on the economy and how close it is to a thriving urban area. I had a spare 1.3 acre house lot I sold 15 years ago at the peak of market for 44K. I just bought 83 acres 2 years ago for 110K. The economy is good and the real estate market down south of my area is booming so folks are looking up in my area to get a deal. Most folks will not drive much more than 2 hours for a recreational lot and I am about 3 hours north of Massachusetts so I am on the fringes but the lots within 2 hours sell for more. There is a lot of federal and conserved land in the area so large lots are harder to find. Raw land with wood sells for whatever the wood on it is going for. The wood market is pretty crappy in Northern New England due to closure of many pulp mills and the shutdown of biomass power plants so the raw land is selling for less. Local land speculators know what they can make off the wood and what they can sell the cut over land for so if the price drops or someone get desperate they snap it up.

 

[mark cline]

I bought my 175 acres for $ 240 / acre , 17 years ago. It has a 30 year timber lease on it .We agreed to a 6 acre lot , where I could build my log home and cut what ever I wanted with in the lot . With all the dead standing and what the wind takes down, I have more than enough firewood for me and my son . They will be back to log before the 30 years , but in the mean time I have a fantastic hunting area and wood supply. This land is going for over $1500 / acre now.