Burning in EXTREME cold

[Pertzbro]

Anything different when burning in extreme cold than normal cold? I'm thinking more draft but wondering if there is anything else.

Likely i will be burning at a much higher primary air to pump the heat, which will help my liner stay hotter to avoid creosote on a cold pipe? Going to be -21°F tomorrow night without windchill.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[byQ]

-21F. Wow that is cold. I would get my firewood into the garage or in the house so I wouldn't have to go outside too much.

 

[woodhog73]

Was minus 10 over night and currently it's 5 degrees out.

My draft appears stronger in the extreme cold. I keep my air on the lowest setting and I can see the burn is stronger and faster. So I'm going through wood much faster than when it's not as cold outside.

5 degrees outside and house is sitting at 70 degrees and 73 in the hearth room. I'd have to push the stove beyond my comfort level for wood consumption to get any warmer.

 

[begreen]

Remember to watch those pipes in the basement if unheated. Cycle the boiler or furnace to warm up the area occasionally or put an electric heater down there if necessary.

 

[Pertzbro]

Remember to watch those pipes in the basement if unheated. Cycle the boiler or furnace to warm up the area occasionally or put an electric heater down there if necessary.

I plan on starting the basement fireplace for the first time since I've owned the house. It's got a ton of thermal mass above and around it. See this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...nt-that-ties-into-forced-gas-furnance.155561/

 

[excessads]

The strong draft and seasoned oak and ash climb to 425 with less than 20mins, I close the choke all the way down . The secondary is mesmerizing!

 

[Jason763]

Remember to watch those pipes in the basement if unheated. Cycle the boiler or furnace to warm up the area occasionally or put an electric heater down there if necessary.

I assume you're talking about domestic water. I have a really good question though. My current heat source is a boiler in the basement with baseboards throughout the house. Some of these pipes run through my crawlspace. What would you do, just cycle the pump on intervals or run the boiling to operating temperature ?

 

[begreen]

If they are vulnerable I probably would cycle the boiler every 2-3 hrs. Are the pipes running through the crawl space well insulated? Are the crawlspace vents closed off?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd get some foam around those crawlspace pipes.

 

[Dix]

I'd get some foam around those crawlspace pipes.

You & me, both.... I've also got insulation on the floor boards and the outside walls, too. Lucky for me, the OB is right at the entrance to the crawl space ( 3 feet away or so).

 

[Jason763]

If they are vulnerable I probably would cycle the boiler every 2-3 hrs. Are the pipes running through the crawl space well insulated? Are the crawlspace vents closed off?

I'll check with the plumber to see if there is a way to cycle just the pump at given intervals. The pipes are not insulated, wouldn't the mice just chew them? No vents on crawlspace.

 

[Dix]

I'll check with the plumber to see if there is a way to cycle just the pump at given intervals. The pipes are not insulated, wouldn't the mice just chew them? No vents on crawlspace.

I have mice, and a killing machine of a cat. Pipes stay insulated

 

[Snotrocket]

-21F. Wow that is cold. I would get my firewood into the garage or in the house so I wouldn't have to go outside too much.

This is the exact reason I put the entire winters worth of wood in my basement. When my rack runs low I send one of the kids down to fetch more and fill it up again.

 

[Jason763]

I have mice, and a killing machine of a cat. Pipes stay insulated

I could insulate and mouse poison, works well in my garage.

 

[Poindexter]

I assume you're talking about domestic water. I have a really good question though. My current heat source is a boiler in the basement with baseboards throughout the house. Some of these pipes run through my crawlspace. What would you do, just cycle the pump on intervals or run the boiling to operating temperature ?

Depends on how much antifreeze is in your circulating water. We use glycol up here, mine is right about depleted, but no runs outside the insulation envelope.

Whichever runs you got that run through the crawl space ought to be circulated regularly, with no glycol and below zero temps i would be looking for every two hours or so for 15 minutes at a time with water at 165dF or hotter. Below -40dF your going to want the pump running continuously.

 

[Poindexter]

Anything different when burning in extreme cold than normal cold? I'm thinking more draft but wondering if there is anything else.

Likely i will be burning at a much higher primary air to pump the heat, which will help my liner stay hotter to avoid creosote on a cold pipe? Going to be -21°F tomorrow night without windchill.

Thanks,
Mike

Better draft pretty much covers it. I might be jaded. You are probably going to want to burn the boxfull down faster anyway. I wouldn't be too terribly worried about buildup in your pipe, if anything you might maybe be more likely to ignite whatever buildup you already have.

Creosote buildup is more of a shoulder season accumulation thing, at least up here.

How many square feet are you heating with that monster? 86k BTU per hour? seriously?

 

[firefighterjake]

Pretty much covered everything.

Draft tends to be stronger and the heating needs increased so you will use more wood, quicker.

Reloads tend to be earlier rather than later in the coaling stage so there can be a build up of coals . . . so you may need to eventually burn down some of those coals (i.e. opening the air all the way for a while or putting a single split on the coals and opening up the air.)

The real danger when the temps get extremely cold is the possibility of frozen pipes. When the temps dip below the donut I have no issues with firing up my oil boiler periodically or even turning up the thermostat so the boiler kicks on sooner to move heated water through the pipes.

 

[Jason763]

Depends on how much antifreeze is in your circulating water. We use glycol up here, mine is right about depleted, but no runs outside the insulation envelope.

Whichever runs you got that run through the crawl space ought to be circulated regularly, with no glycol and below zero temps i would be looking for every two hours or so for 15 minutes at a time with water at 165dF or hotter. Below -40dF your going to want the pump running continuously.

Ok, thank you. I'm going to talk to my plumber to see how I can do that and maybe isolated those zones

 

[jharkin]

You & me, both.... I've also got insulation on the floor boards and the outside walls, too. Lucky for me, the OB is right at the entrance to the crawl space ( 3 feet away or so).

Insulating the floor and the walls of the crawlspace is counterproductive. You should either insulate the walls only and make the crawlspace part of the conditioned envelope of the house (preferable when there is HVAC and plumbing in the space) or insulate the floor only and make it a cold space.

Building Science has a lot of good information on the topic:

https://buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/crawlspace-insulation

 

[heavy hammer]

As others have said above your draft is much better when it's 5 compared to 35 so wood gets chewed up faster, plus with that cold you just seem to be reloading more. We just had a cold stretch where it didn't get above 20 during the day and single digits at night for three or four days. With that it seems like I was feeding the stoves every six to eight hours to keep temps up, plus keep the house where we wanted it. For me I don't care how much wood gets used when it's that cold I like to be warm. Plus it doesn't look so bad when I bring home more firewood this next year I need somewhere to put it. For the pipes I had a boiler at my first house with half of it being a crawl space. We would cycle the heat on for that part of the house every few hours when it got real cold, plus I just figured the extra heat in the house couldn't hurt. It was better than frozen pipes. Insulation and other remedies will help but moving and heating that water I think would be much better especially in that extreme cold.

 

[Poindexter]

There is stuff called 'heat tape' up here, basically pipe wrap tape with an electric plug at one end. Wrap around the pipe and plug it in...

 

[Dix]

Insulating the floor and the walls of the crawlspace is counterproductive. You should either insulate the walls only and make the crawlspace part of the conditioned envelope of the house (preferable when there is HVAC and plumbing in the space) or insulate the floor only and make it a cold space.

Building Science has a lot of good information on the topic:

https://buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/crawlspace-insulation

I disagree, in my situation.

I thought that's pretty much what I described.

The burner is 3 feet away from the crawl space ( 4" X 4" opening), and lower. All heat from it running rises, and goes into the crawl space, which houses baseboard & water pipes to the kitchen & upper bathroom. Crawl space insulated, as well as all piping.

Ask me how I made it when heating with only firewood, an electric HWH, and no burner running for 6 years.

 

[jharkin]

I disagree, in my situation.

I thought that's pretty much what I described.

The burner is 3 feet away from the crawl space ( 4" X 4" opening), and lower. All heat from it running rises, and goes into the crawl space, which houses baseboard & water pipes to the kitchen & upper bathroom. Crawl space insulated, as well as all piping.

Ask me how I made it when heating with only firewood, an electric HWH, and no burner running for 6 years.

You described having insulation on the outside walls of the crawlspace, AND insulation on the floor above the crawlspace - unless I misread what you wrote?

 

[Dix]

You described having insulation on the outside walls of the crawlspace, AND insulation on the floor above the crawlspace - unless I misread what you wrote?

That's what I have, the floor is insulated from underneath, with space open where the insulated pipes run. I will admit to the insulation having fell down in spots, and not replaced, as of yet

 

[Kenneth Kline]

I have hot water baseboard heat and I monitor the crawlspace temp with a remote digital thermometer when using my wood stove. During extreme cold I open a valve on the boiler that constantly gravity feeds a small amount of hot water through the system keeping it just warm enough.

Most boilers will that valve.