Burning confusion

[loneeagle15]

Ok I have a Mansfield wood stove and was wondering what I'm looking for when I burn this is my first year of burning so I am new to this.
1 when I start it up I have good flames going until I close the door then they just tend too die out and leave me with coals is this what I want (I have my oak lever all of the way to the left)?
2 when I do burn I will put in 3-4 splits and it keeps my house toasty at about 80-85 degrees for around 10-14 hours but I never get secondary burn to kick in is this normal?
3I did fill my firebox full 1 time and got secondary burn but my house was at 95 for about 16 hours will low burns without the secondary cause too much creosote build up?
4 If so how often should I go for a really hot burn?
Sorry for all of the dumb newbie questions
Thanks JD

 

[BrotherBart]

I will let the Hearthstone burners fill in the blanks but I have never seen a stove where you could start a good burn by just leaving the door cracked "momentarily" like the Mansfield manual calls for. Most are going to take fifteen or twenty minutes with the door ajar to get a good burn going before you close it. It has to warm the chimney up to establish a draft that will pull through the primary air inlet.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

If using a cold stove wrinkle a few sheets of news paper up and light them. Close the door and this will warm the chimney. After the smoke clear (couple minutes) now use you small stuff and get a fire going. Add wood slightly larger than what you used to start with, slowly. This always works for me. If all else fails, get a pellet stove. Eric

 

[nshif]

hes keeping his house at 80-95 for 14 hours? It must be 75 outside. and 95 for 16 hours? something aint right here or we should all own Mansfeilds. with no secondary burn????

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hes keeping his house at 80-95 for 14 hours? It must be 75 outside. and 95 for 16 hours? something aint right here or we should all own Mansfeilds. with no secondary burn????

soapstone unit, they hold heat pretty well, although i think his house holds heat well also , we're not talking burn time , just how long his house stays that temp (if im reading this right).

the hearthstone units are IMHO a work of art by the way, beautiful stoves. not in my market though so i can extoll them to the heavens all i want. im always honest in here especially with my opinions on other brands of stoves

 

[jpl1nh]

Okay, time to ask questions. Where do you live?, How large is the area you are heating?, What were the outside temps when you were burning? The Mansfield is a serious wood burner, its a lot of stove that can heat a large area. I find that you need to get a good fire going with your door slightly open in the beginning, especially if its not very cold out, then you can finally shut it and perhaps start to regulate air flow. By the time you get your cooker up warm enough for secondary burn you are going to be producing some good heat. 80's , 95 seems a bit excessive. So give us more details.

 

[KeithO]

The Mansfield has a 3.2 cuft firebox. It weighs 550lbs. There is just no way that that stove is going to be happy with 3-4 splits unless it us being run that way with the primary air fully open and the fire roaring. Until one gets that thermal mass hot and cooking, the fire is not going to be able to burn clean. One should actually see the soot buildup on the glass as the first big giveaway.

Its a big stove, made for heating big spaces. More than likely it is just too warm right now to really get the stove cranking, or the stove is simply far too big for the needs of the space to be heated.

 

[Robbie]

Sounds like you could have wet wood.........or damper is not open at all.


Robbie

 

[webbie]

Time of year - climate - all these thing affect the draft and operation. BB has it right about startup - you have to really use some good kindling and smaller logs to get things started - and get the chimney warm.

As it gets colder, things may work better. If not, provide us with more info like chimney type, chimney height, etc.......it definitely matters!

 

[loneeagle15]

Ok here goes thanks for all of the replies I am heating 2000 sq ft. with vaulted ceilings I live in Montana and when I fired up the stove the outside temp. was in the mid 50's and dropped down to 36 over night and then climbed back to the low 50's and held into the 90's from roughly midnight until around 3 in the afternoon the next day with just 3 splits it will stay in the low 80's
I do leave the door ajar for around 20 min. but when I close the door it snuffs the flame.
I noticed that everyone said the stove takes along time to heat up but I noticed that it starts to throw off heat in about 45 min. I put in 2 splits and a couple of small pieces before we left for my daughters soccer game (it is snowing outside now) and when we got home the house is sitting at a very nice 83. my main concern is creosote build up or should I not really worry until it gets good and cold out?

 

[KeithO]

JD, how big are the splits ? You do have a big firebox. Combustion is a complicated process and one of the factors is that for combustion to be self sustaining you need a sufficient amount of fuel to be available to overcome the losses that would tend to supress the reaction.

If you use too little wood in 1 load, the heat given off may not be sufficient to counterbalance the heat lost to the environment, with the result that the inside of the stove cools, as that happens the draft weakens and over time the fire simply goes out.

Done the right way (and it doesn't have to be a full firebox, but maybe double or tripple the current load) once the wood has ignited, the reaction wil be sustainable. The comments about wet wood may be on target. The general rule is that the wood should be burning on 3 surfaces within 1 -2 minutes. If it has only blackened in that time and particularly if it sizzles it is soaked.

 

[struggle]

jd,

Mansfield owner here. What type of chimney do you have? outside masonary inside double wall and lenght? I am in Iowa so my situation is completely different then yours I am sure.

My chimney is an outside masonary clay tile chimney that I last year put a 5.5" flex liner in for due to problems with leaking/cracked tiles. So when I operate my stove after about 45 minutes I get heat off but actually could get it sooner but I try to not warm it to fast. My stove on the 5.5" liner can start small kindling and shut the door right away with out any issues and it takes off. Once I get an apreciable temp on the middle of the stove top thermometer I damping it down and it will go into secondary burn easy.

Here though is the catch with my stove set up though. I have to much draft. My chimney lenght from exit to the top of the stove is 24-25' long. I have one dampner 18" above the stove and with it completely closed my stove will go into crazy secondary burn if I completely close the air off to it. Stove temp in the middle will hit 600 quite easy and internal stove pipe temp will go to 1100 degrees with a probe in the stove pipe which is above the dampner.

My glass never gets sooty unless I damping it down to soon and after the temp comes up the glass clears itself.

For my house set up I am in a 2x4 framed house around 1,500 sq ft and my stove is in a finished basement and we use this stove as our main heat source once temps drop below freezing. Anything above freezing we use an upstairs fireplace to keep the house warm. We would cook our selves out of our house if we were to use the Mansfield in any temps above freezing. When the temps do drop below 32 our basement is still consistanly 90 degrees and upstairs will be around 74-80. Wife likes it warm.

I am guessing your house a lot better insulated then mine and you might be suffering from a slight lack of draft for not getting a lot of secondary burn and for having to leave the door open for such a long time as I can close my door right after I light fire and when burning 24-7 I just scoop ashes out and restart on left over coals with no kindling.

I am redoing my stove pipe to the wall thimble and might install another dampner as the manual states in some situations two may be needed as I feel I am not getting very long burn times. I always seem to be adding would every couple of hours since I am slightly concerned about leaving with a fully loaded box of wood with the possibility of over firing the stove from over draft.

 

[loneeagle15]

My chimney is 15' tall from the top of the stove and looks to be around 8" in diameter (I could not install it myself my insurance would not allow it) it is double walled pipe.
My glass does not get sooty
My splits are from 24" logs and roughly 16" long and covered with tarps
most of my wood is scraps from a local log house builder and he dries them for 3 years before he starts to build with them
last nite I placed 2 logs in from stuff I cut myself 16" long and about 6-8" in diameter through them on my coals and they started to burn for a few hours snowed last nite and was 30 outside when I got up right now it's 33 and my house is 79 with a bed of coals
New question if this is going to be my normal burns how often should I be checking and cleaning my chimney for creosote?

 

[loneeagle15]

Sorry forgot to ask this also will a good hot burn every couple days or once a week burn off the creosote build up in the chimney?

 

[Michael6268]

Toasty 80-85?? Im sitting buy my AC typing this "sweating" just thinking about a house that hot!

 

[Todd]

Soapstone stoves take a little getting use to. Maybe your starting your fires with too large of splits? I like to start my fires with lots of kindling and small splits til I get a good bed of coals. Then I progress to the bigger splits. That 500 lbs of soapstone is really going to suck up alot of the heat that the chimney needs for draft. This is your first season with the Mansfield and it will take some trial and error to get to know your stove. With outside temps in the 50's the stove should work but may still be a little sluggish. As the temps go down you will see a big improvement in draft. As far as burning hot once a week to clean your chimney, I think back in the day before EPA stoves people use to follow this rule, but nowadays I don't think it's needed. When you reload you run hot til the wood chars then turn it down, and you should have a clean burn with little creosote. I like to check my chimney once about mid season, then at the end.

 

[KeithO]

Are you sure of the 15' chimney height ? From the stove connector to the rain cap ? It seems awfully low to me. Does the chimney run up inside the heated house envelope ? Or does it go back out the wall and then up the side of the house to a point about 4-5ft above the eves ? Are you using single wall or double wall inside the home and then Class A from the ceiling out ? Class A almost always is stainless on the outside with an 8" OD. Stovepipe is normally painted black and 6" diameter. Double wall stovepipe will be 6" ID and just over 6.5" OD (1/4" air gap).

If your chimney is outside and only 15' high that will be the major reason why you have draft problems. If that is the case, you would be much better served with an inside chimney and extend the height to at least 18 ft total with the majority of the length inside the heated space. The difference will be like day and night. You wouldn't have t buy any additional class A, maybe just some more double wall and a ceiling support / radiation shield.

 

[loneeagle15]

chimney is double wall inside my home and about 3' of stainless above my roof whatever the rule is for chimneys being so many feet above the roof in whatever distance looks right anyway chimney is about 2-3 feet from the peak as far as drafting when the door is ajar I have tons of draft just not when the door is closed I have coals and a few flames same way when it was 34 outside as when 50 with the OAK wide open

 

[KeithO]

There are then only 3 real possibilities:

1) Your house is too "tight" and is not letting in enough combustion air. Try cracking a window near the stove and see what happens. If the combustion picks up, you need an outside air connection. If you have outside air, could it possibly be on a side opposite to the prevailing wind ? This could create negative pressure. If you run any exhaust fans (bathroom, Kitchen) they may compete with the draft. Opening the door reduces the resistance to the flow of air, so what may work with the door open may not work with it closed.
2)Maybe there is some sort of blockage on the primary air inlet. Remove the ash pan and try to see where the air inlet for the primary air is. Use a flashlight and make sure that there is nothing blocking the inlet (even paper ?) Then look for the same position inside the stove to make sure an overzealous employee didn't perhaps smear the opening partially closed with stove cement during the assembly process.
3) Try to find the secondary air inlet and make sure that that is clear too. Any Mansfield owners who can provide pointers where to find the secondary air inlet ?

 

[Gooserider]

One thing I'm wondering JD - when you are having these slow burns where you don't think you are getting secondary combustion, have you looked outside at the chimney? Are you getting visible smoke? If so how much, or how heavy is it?

I don't have any hands on with a Mansfield, but alot of ways it sounds like your fire is doing OK - you are getting heat for a very long time, it sounds like your wood is getting consumed, even if there are no visible flames, etc. I'm wondering if we are all chasing a problem that doesn't really exist?

How visible are the secondary burn tubes when you look through the stove window? Have you tried looking at the area around the tubes while you are having the "slow burn"? How bright is the light around the stove area?

If you are getting little or no smoke out the chimney, it would sound to me like you are getting secondary burn, even if you aren't seeing it visibly. I have heard that if you have a fairly small load of wood in a big firebox you can still get secondary burn to deal with the smoke, but that because little wood means little smoke, you might not see it, especially if the secondary tubes aren't real visible since that will be where the burn is. Also that sometimes the secondary flames can be hard to see if the light outside the stove is to bright. (This is part of the reason why it is sometimes hard for folks to get nice photos of the secondary on their stoves - the flash washes out the flames...)

At any rate, having little or no visible smoke should mean that you aren't producing much creosote to begin with. If you are getting lots of smoke, then you may have more of a reason to be concerned.

Gooserider

 

[KeithO]

Mr Gooserider What he is describing just doesn't sound right for a stove with the primary air control all the way open. I would be afraid that if there is something blocking the primary air that could become dislodged, he may leave the stove with the primary all the way open and come home hours later to a totally overfueld stove and indoor temperature over 100 (hopefully the house not burnt down).

 

[Gooserider]

Mr Gooserider What he is describing just doesn't sound right for a stove with the primary air control all the way open. I would be afraid that if there is something blocking the primary air that could become dislodged, he may leave the stove with the primary all the way open and come home hours later to a totally overfueld stove and indoor temperature over 100 (hopefully the house not burnt down).

You might be right, though I think the scenario you describe is unlikely. However it would be worth checking to see if there is a problem with the air supplies - unfortunately I don't know just how the Mansfield does it's air intakes. Perhaps a call to the dealer and / or Hearthstone might be in order to find out the best way to check the air passages.

IIRC, there have been some problems in the past w/ Hearthstone stoves where they overdid the refractory cement that holds the stove together. Maybe something is plugged up?

Gooserider

 

[Highbeam]

My hearthstone heritage plugs into the minimum allowed 13' of vertical chimney. This being my first year with soapstone I too had to learn the tricks. My stove setup starts very well with 9 sticks of kindling and 4 half size splits as long as the door is cracked and draft wide open. I leave the door cracked for about three minutes until it is engulfed and then partially latch the door closed for a few more minutes to let the fire get roaring again, I then latch it down and leave it be until it burns down enough that I can fit in more full sized splits. The stove, maybe all soapstones, doesn't like big huge splits. A 4" split is about the best performer for regular fires. I run the stove with wide open draft until the stove top is up to the desired temp of 300 or so where I close the draft to half or less, never fully closed or it will snuff. These things run cooler than steel and plenty of heat is being made at 300-400 which is where I run mine. Sometimes I get good secondaries, most times not but I always want active flames, the chimney doesn't oversmoke, the glass stays clear, and the ceramic baffle is white so I know my burn is good. When the target stove top temp is only 300-400 you can bet that the secondary combustion is not as easy to get as a steel stove running at 600.

Do you have a stove top thermometer? I have an OAK kit installed and when connecting it I observed the primary air shutter from the inside and on my heritage it is not visible from the ashpan area, you must look into the OAK snorkle or remove the entire ashpan casting if you really want to check for obstruction. The draft control slider should slide smoothly.

The hearthstone manual suggests a high fire with the draft wide open for 20 minutes each day to minimize the formation of creosote. This sounds to me like a burn off procedure though it won't burn off the accumulations in your chimney. The manual also lists a pretty detailed daily fire procedure including a good amount of kindling.