blanketing the pipe vs not

[K-Mac]

so far i have had 2 chimney companies come out to give me quotes on relining my chimney for my new wood stove. company one would reline my chimney for $1300--literally just the cost of material and hooking it all up. would not bust out my clay tile or blanket the pipe. company two is demanding to bust out my clay tile so he can blanket the pipe to a tune of $4370. i am told by both companies that my clay tile is in perfect condition and the chimney itself is completely sound. both companies believe relining with pipe only would be no problem as far as sliding it on down. company 2 says he only does things by the book wherein company 1 i think he operates with a little more wiggle room.

i have a 3rd company coming out wednesday. Before this person comes out i would like some advice. I get the reason for blanketing the pipe -- added insulation so that gases dont condense and perhaps turn into creosote. what i dont understand is it really worth the cost to bust out perfect tile that would add some form of insulation only to add something back. to me it seems like the cost isnt worth the slight advantage in insulating the pipe itself. the chimney itself is inside the house up to the roof line.

to me if my currently chimney is to code, and zero cracks in the tile and masonry brick....i should be able to put in a pipe only because that still would be a significant improvement for my new stove over just trying to "make do" with my current setup! to me busting out my tile also risk water issues if they damage the mortar or brick of the chimney. to me even if there was a chimney fire inside this new pipe...the perfect clay tile will then take over.

so what in the world am i missing here?! i dont have thousands of dollars to spend just to make some setup slightly better!

 

[bholler]

so far i have had 2 chimney companies come out to give me quotes on relining my chimney for my new wood stove. company one would reline my chimney for $1300--literally just the cost of material and hooking it all up. would not bust out my clay tile or blanket the pipe. company two is demanding to bust out my clay tile so he can blanket the pipe to a tune of $4370. i am told by both companies that my clay tile is in perfect condition and the chimney itself is completely sound. both companies believe relining with pipe only would be no problem as far as sliding it on down. company 2 says he only does things by the book wherein company 1 i think he operates with a little more wiggle room.

i have a 3rd company coming out wednesday. Before this person comes out i would like some advice. I get the reason for blanketing the pipe -- added insulation so that gases dont condense and perhaps turn into creosote. what i dont understand is it really worth the cost to bust out perfect tile that would add some form of insulation only to add something back. to me it seems like the cost isnt worth the slight advantage in insulating the pipe itself. the chimney itself is inside the house up to the roof line.

to me if my currently chimney is to code, and zero cracks in the tile and masonry brick....i should be able to put in a pipe only because that still would be a significant improvement for my new stove over just trying to "make do" with my current setup! to me busting out my tile also risk water issues if they damage the mortar or brick of the chimney. to me even if there was a chimney fire inside this new pipe...the perfect clay tile will then take over.

so what in the world am i missing here?! i dont have thousands of dollars to spend just to make some setup slightly better!

Do you currently have the required clearances from the outside of the chimney structure to combustible materials? If not you are required by code to insulate. What brand pipe are they using? Many require insulation to maintain the ul listing. We will not install uninsulated either regardless of code.

 

[K-Mac]

so prove to me this isnt just government decree then that is run with do to "training". if my current setup is to code....adding, literally, another layer....doesnt somehow make the setup unsafe. this feels like a one size fits all mindset...which would be typical of all things government. i want someone to prove to me why its needed, i could care less for what code states. and dont take that statement for anything more than what it is. i want an explanation for why it makes everything TRULY better and not just slightly better...but would be completely outweighed do to cost. if my chimney was in bad shape i would wholeheartedly agree....but as it is....perfect shape. so knocking out tile...potentially harming my brick now has risk to my house due to water infiltration. the risk of making things worse only to attempt to make it better seems to make no sense to me in contrast to working with what already is on a case by case basis.

 

[bholler]

so prove to me this isnt just government decree then that is run with do to "training". if my current setup is to code....adding, literally, another layer....doesnt somehow make the setup unsafe. this feels like a one size fits all mindset...which would be typical of all things government. i want someone to prove to me why its needed, i could care less for what code states. and dont take that statement for anything more than what it is. i want an explanation for why it makes everything TRULY better and not just slightly better...but would be completely outweighed do to cost. if my chimney was in bad shape i would wholeheartedly agree....but as it is....perfect shape. so knocking out tile...potentially harming my brick now has risk to my house due to water infiltration. the risk of making things worse only to attempt to make it better seems to make no sense to me in contrast to working with what already is on a case by case basis.

I am saying it is very likely your current setup is not to code. And without the required air space heat can transfer through the masonry structure causing pyrolysis and eventually combustion. This is why that code requirement is there. It is to protect you and your house. You also get the added benifit of improved performance.

I have broken tiles out of many hundreds of chimneys and never caused a problem with water infiltration

 

[Highbeam]

The whole argument comes down to “if” your current chimney is “to code”. You will notice that some people assume it’s not and base advice on that. It’s not a terrible assumption because very often these masonry chimneys are not installed properly or are damaged by use and time.

Do you want to go with the assumption that the chimney is fully serviceable and up to code? Insulation still makes it work better.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

On top of that, if creosote made it through any gaps between pipes, you could have flammable material on the other side of those tiles.

 

[begreen]

Are there any offsets in the chimney? What is the current chimney tile ID? If it's a straight shot up the flue, ask the third guy if they can put in a pre-insulated liner like DuraLiner. It may kill two birds with one stone and save the cost of busting out the clay liner.

 

[Smokepole]

be careful who you have busting out tile

I had mine done last year,My chimney now

has over one hundred cracks and my flashing was compromised

Tis from the highest rated company in my area.

 

[bholler]

be careful who you have busting out tile

I had mine done last year,My chimney now

has over one hundred cracks and my flashing was compromised

Tis from the highest rated company in my area.

Did you make them fix it?

 

[bholler]

so far i have had 2 chimney companies come out to give me quotes on relining my chimney for my new wood stove. company one would reline my chimney for $1300--literally just the cost of material and hooking it all up. would not bust out my clay tile or blanket the pipe. company two is demanding to bust out my clay tile so he can blanket the pipe to a tune of $4370. i am told by both companies that my clay tile is in perfect condition and the chimney itself is completely sound. both companies believe relining with pipe only would be no problem as far as sliding it on down. company 2 says he only does things by the book wherein company 1 i think he operates with a little more wiggle room.

i have a 3rd company coming out wednesday. Before this person comes out i would like some advice. I get the reason for blanketing the pipe -- added insulation so that gases dont condense and perhaps turn into creosote. what i dont understand is it really worth the cost to bust out perfect tile that would add some form of insulation only to add something back. to me it seems like the cost isnt worth the slight advantage in insulating the pipe itself. the chimney itself is inside the house up to the roof line.

to me if my currently chimney is to code, and zero cracks in the tile and masonry brick....i should be able to put in a pipe only because that still would be a significant improvement for my new stove over just trying to "make do" with my current setup! to me busting out my tile also risk water issues if they damage the mortar or brick of the chimney. to me even if there was a chimney fire inside this new pipe...the perfect clay tile will then take over.

so what in the world am i missing here?! i dont have thousands of dollars to spend just to make some setup slightly better!

I have to add the two quotes you have are extreme opposites. $1300 is absurdly low I couldnt cover my costs at that price. And $4370 is way high. Really breakout only adds an hour of labor and the cost of disposal. That usually adds up to under $500.

 

[Smokepole]

Did you make them fix it?

 

[Smokepole]

No there is no way to fix it.

My chimney runs up through the center of my house some of it is concealed

Plus they never offered, I bought some chimney RX mortar joint sealer and did all

the joints above my roof line. I have been working on the flashing it is a tin roof.

The owner called it a learning experience for him.

It has ruined my house

 

[bholler]

No there is no way to fix it.

My chimney runs up through the center of my house some of it is concealed

Plus they never offered, I bought some chimney RX mortar joint sealer and did all

the joints above my roof line. I have been working on the flashing it is a tin roof.

The owner called it a learning experience for him.

It has ruined my house

Of course there is a way to fix it and if I were you I would demand they fix it or replace it. This is why we as professionals carry insurance. I honestly don't know how they could have screwed up a breakout that badly but it is their responsibility.

 

[K-Mac]

i believe there is a slight offset at the thimble but was told a little chiseling would make the T fit. there is a masonry wall inside the room to create the hearth and its set at a diagonal so that the masonry chimney is inside the house. both companies had zero problem with the current setup. and thats where i get hung up on busting tile. in fact the one company said aside from performance not being so great...my current chimney would pose very little concern with the new stove. so to me as a lay person...alright....if theres a chimney fire in the steel liner...then the clay tile would be there to protect things from there since both said its in perfect condition (both used video to see all the way down).

im really not trying to be obnoxious hahaha...just trying to understand. i dont really trust either quote. maybe i just have brought out two extreme companies right now. one too laid back and one believing everything is a big deal. the high quote came from a guy who flat out complained about every other company and how he has to go back and fix every companies work in the area and on and on about some chimney book being his bible. the low quote came from a guy that figured out things in his truck and then came back in and told me his price...the high quote the guy took a WEEK to figure it all out!

 

[Smokepole]

Of course there is a way to fix it and if I were you I would demand they fix it or replace it. This is why we as professionals carry insurance. I honestly don't know how they could have screwed up a breakout that badly but it is their responsibility.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I have to add the two quotes you have are extreme opposites. $1300 is absurdly low I couldnt cover my costs at that price. And $4370 is way high. Really breakout only adds an hour of labor and the cost of disposal. That usually adds up to under $500.

To support bholler in this, I had an existing wood insert re- installed in my masonry chimney ( original install was hack).
Insulated heavywall liner installed after they broke out the clay liner- $2700 inc

 

[bholler]

To support bholler in this, I had an existing wood insert re- installed in my masonry chimney ( original install was hack).
Insulated heavywall liner installed after they broke out the clay liner- $2700 inc

That is about where I would be in most cases as well.

 

[Smokepole]

The sweep said my chimney was small, liner inside size 6x12.

Also no air space between liner and brick. some liners were partway mortared to the brick.


But, when he figured the job I told him not to do it if there was a good chance he would

crack up the bricks. His reply NO PROBLEM.

 

[bholler]

The sweep said my chimney was small, liner inside size 6x12.

Also no air space between liner and brick. some liners were partway mortared to the brick.


But, when he figured the job I told him not to do it if there was a good chance he would

crack up the bricks. His reply NO PROBLEM.

Ok if they were mortared in they should have switched their approach and gone with an oval liner in your case. Regardless it is their responsibility to fix or replace your chimney. Make them do it.

 

[Smokepole]

Ok if they were mortared in they should have switched their approach and gone with an oval liner in your case. Regardless it is their responsibility to fix or replace your chimney. Make them do it.

 

[Smokepole]

I don't see how it can be fixed unless something is done inside the chimney to strengthen it and seal the cracks.

 

[begreen]

i believe there is a slight offset at the thimble but was told a little chiseling would make the T fit. there is a masonry wall inside the room to create the hearth and its set at a diagonal so that the masonry chimney is inside the house. both companies had zero problem with the current setup. and thats where i get hung up on busting tile. in fact the one company said aside from performance not being so great...my current chimney would pose very little concern with the new stove. so to me as a lay person...alright....if theres a chimney fire in the steel liner...then the clay tile would be there to protect things from there since both said its in perfect condition (both used video to see all the way down).

im really not trying to be obnoxious hahaha...just trying to understand. i dont really trust either quote. maybe i just have brought out two extreme companies right now. one too laid back and one believing everything is a big deal. the high quote came from a guy who flat out complained about every other company and how he has to go back and fix every companies work in the area and on and on about some chimney book being his bible. the low quote came from a guy that figured out things in his truck and then came back in and told me his price...the high quote the guy took a WEEK to figure it all out!

What is the ID of the clay liner?

What stove will be connected to this liner?

 

[bholler]

I don't see how it can be fixed unless something is done inside

the chimney to strengthen it and seal the cracks.

It can be repointed. It can be taken down and rebuilt with masonry. It can be taken down and replaced with a prefab class a chimney. There are plenty of options if they damaged your house it is their responsibility to fix it.

 

[Smokepole]

It can be repointed. It can be taken down and rebuilt with masonry. It can be taken down and replaced with a prefab class a chimney. There are plenty of options if they damaged your house it is their responsibility to fix it.

Thank you for all of your help

I did have another sweep check it out for me. He said they own your chimney. I now know what he meant.

 

[bholler]

Thank you for all of your help

I did have another sweep check it out for me

He said they own your chimney. I now know what he meant.

Yeah you are going to need to push the issue. It may end up in court if they don't step up. But it is on them. To the op smokepoles case is very uncommon. I know lots of sweeps that break out all the time with no problems