Big house, cold climate, 6" x 25' Chimney

[Zeph]

We have a Big house in a cold climate, with a Long (6" x 25') Chimney. The current stove is an Englander 30 and the family wants more heat, more heat, MORE Heat (did I say, more heat?) 'Someone' says the Englander can do 75,000btu; I know we are not getting that, perhaps 20k in my world. We are learning more about burning wood, we have nice dry wood and we burn the stove with a hot bed of red coals. It is a nice fire when going.
(http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html)

Well, the house meets what the State of Alaska calls the BEES standard (Building Energy Efficiency Standard) but tall ceilings, lost of floor space and lots of windows mean lots of heat loss. We often heat only with wood with the englander, but we cannot get the house above 55 degrees when really cold out. What is cold out? I will say cold out is about 20 below zero Fahrenheit. When we are at about 20 degrees above we are doing good with a small fan pointed right at the front glass of the stove.

Did I write where I am? Well I am from Willow, Alaska. It gets cold here, but only to about 30 below f. Regularly we are at 5f below in the winter.

So, around these parts of Alaska, I am told the best selling stove is the Blaze King Princess/Classic. This is a stove that would work for me, but I am concerned that we will get 'enough more' heat out of it.
My preference is for a Blaze King King Classic. That is a monster. Especially if it is an 80's model. Almost scary hot, if you know what I mean. And it calls for an 8" chimney.

So, having a long cold 25' long chimney means a cold chimney and likely Back Puffing when loading. The Englander 30 already has an issue. See my drafting issue video at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1upJrejfs

But, if we open the throttle on a stove with 8" chimney before opening the door, get the chimney good and warm, then the 6" could actually be a good choice, as we will have a warmer chimney, rt??

Let me make some assumptions:
1. We do not carry insurance, and inspection is not an issue, but I do not want to do anything dumb; it has to be a safe install.
2. I could redo the 6" chimney to 8", but I do not like the idea.
3. The stove sits in the middle of a room and catching a wall on fire is not an issue
4 the current stove, the Englander, has a u shaped coil in it that is tied to an aquastat that turns on a pump that feeds the farthest faucet in the house when the water gets to 130 f temperature. I would like to have the new stove have some arrangement, perhaps not inside the stove, but some arrangement to heat water similar to what I am doing.
5. We almost always have a moose stew cooking on the stove top and we like a large stove surface for cooking.
6. We burn dry dry Black spruce that is smaller in dia, about 4" typical.

Any suggestions for the 'hottest' stove around? Did I say we need more heat? What about the King King Classic and deal with some smoke back puff...
I am told to avoid the gimmicks to increase draft either with the auto draft inducer or a stack-top draft inducer.

 

[elmoleaf]

Wow, welcome to the forum. Someone here will steer you in the right direction.
That is one tall house! Not sure why draft/back puffing would be an issue on an internal chimmney that tall.
I'd also look at ways of reducing heat loss. Insulated blinds or insulated internal window shutters may be helpful.

 

[laynes69]

I wouldn't bother if it was me heating with a stove. I would have a nice wood furnace put in there. The downside is you don't get all the radiant heat and you can't cook on them, but you would heat the whole home plus you could supply the hot water. Either that or an efficient boiler with storage. Thats alot of heat you need there, I think it would be hard to do with a stove. There are some nice wood furnaces on the market with cleaner burning technology with glass doors that allow you to view the fire.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep, wood furnace territory. The Blaze King isn't gonna kick any more heat than the 30-NC just more variable. And it sounds like you need pedal to the metal most of the time. Look at a Caddy wood furnace for that barn.

Edit: The max ratings like the 75,000 BTUs for the 30 are if you have somebody standing there stoking it like a locomotive constantly. But you are getting more than 20K out of it unless the splits are soaked.

 

[snowtime]

Your temps are actually a little warmer than here so i think i can relate to your needing heat. My advice is to keep the Englander and put a real cook stove in the kitchen. Get one that burns long [overnight] and has an air tight firebox. I have a Pioneer Maid that has a large firebox and is great for cooking. This will enable you to dial in the heat you need and food just tastes better on it. You can get it all set to heat water. I do not like a furnace because they need power. Also cook stoves are exempt from EPA regs.

 

[BrotherBart]

Your temps are actually a little warmer than here so i think i can relate to your needing heat. My advice is to keep the Englander and put a real cook stove in the kitchen. Get one that burns long [overnight] and has an air tight firebox. I have a Pioneer Maid that has a large firebox and is great for cooking. This will enable you to dial in the heat you need and food just tastes better on it. You can get it all set to heat water. I do not like a furnace because they need power. Also cook stoves are exempt from EPA regs.

And man oh man do the biscuits taste better baked in those suckers. Grew up eating them at a ladies house that cooked with a wood cook stove and have never tasted anything like them ever again.

 

[snowtime]

Yes food is exceptional on a cook stove. The problem is everything is cooked from scratch and tastes so good that we spend our retirement trying to exercise enough so that we can keep eating the goodies. During the winter my DW and I ski about 10 miles every day just to burn off dinner. Retirement is great.

 

[laynes69]

A furnace isn't for everybody, but they do work well. Yeah they require electricity for the blower. If there would be an outage, then a generator would solve that. Theres no way that we could even think about heating our home without a woodfurnace.

 

[Zeph]

The way I see it, the Wood Furnace and the Kitchen Cook Stove both seem like great ideas, though I am really a Boiler kind of guy. The house has infloor heat on three of the four floors, the Attic being unheated, but little heat actually migrates up there. The Basement is a rental and they have unlimited oil sourced heat - in-floor.

We use about 90 gallons of Number one fuel oil a month using a Quietside Boiler. That heats our domestic water and the basement. With seven women around here, five of them little women taking soaking size tubs, there is a lot of hot water consumption. The Wood stove is trying to heat the rest of the house above the basement. If I do the math, 90 gallons a month equates to 12,500 btus an hour...Sort of interesting, I guess...But we need a lot of oil, unless they tap the volcano for electricity, we could not live without it.

I considered an outdoor installed wood gassification boiler, too (with a huge water storage, perhaps using the swimming pool Ma wants

Thanks for the comments, I really enjoyed 'em. The house isn't quite a barn, but it started out as a 'Not so Big House'.
OK, I should work on my closing sig...Here is my prototype:
Homelite XL12
Stihl 290
Case 1835C w/1/2 yard WoodBox
Hitachi EX100-3 with progessive thumb
84 Chevy G30, Diesel, 4x4 long bed w/plow

 

[BrowningBAR]

That heats our domestic water and the basement. With seven women around here

Good god, you are heavily out numbered and completely surrounded!

 

[Zeph]

That heats our domestic water and the basement. With seven women around here

Good god, you are heavily out numbered and completely surrounded!

Yep, not only the seven women, but the dog, the cats, the rabbits and the bird are all feminine...I am lucky they let me live here at all...

b

 

[Zeph]

try blowing a boxfan on the stove & dont worry about the glass getting sooty because thats where the heat is

That, right there, is good advice. :coolsmile:

 

[Zeph]

<[quote author="BrotherBart" date="1264827321"]Yep, wood furnace territory. The Blaze King isn't gonna kick any more heat than the 30-NC just more variable. And it <sounds like you need pedal to the metal most of the time. Look at a Caddy wood furnace for that barn.
/>

Very true that the Englander is pedal to the metal, as much as possible...A guy has gotta sleep. :blank:

Can you provide a link for a Caddy wood Furnace?
I get the impression that this is a unit that can have a viewable fire and can distribute heat via ducts; is that rt?
b

 

[laynes69]

The Caddy is an EPA certified woodfurnace rated at 109,000 btus output. The Max Caddy is a larger furnace, rated around 140,000 btu output that isn't EPA certified, but qualifies for Canada's clean air standards. It has the same clean burning technology as the Caddy but has the option for heated water also. Both qualify for the tax credit also. Here is a link:

http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=335
http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=26&Id=376

The caddys are nice furnaces, that can give you a show and push some heat when needed. I have a link of one in action on my signature below. My unit is the same as the caddy. Just rebadged under usstove, which no longer distributes them.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

(broken link removed to http://www.usstove.com/products.php?id=4)



http://www.usstove.com/Downloads/Owners Manuals/HOTBLAST 1950.pdf

 

[Hogwildz]

Sounds like perfect job for a Garn.

 

[Zeph]

Sounds like perfect job for a Garn.

Um, so, what is a Garn?

Lisa wants something that is going to fit in with the decor...There is a location on the interior of the house that seems a good fit for a unit, but it would require an exterior chimney, which I am told is not a good idea. Perhaps there is a way to run an electric heat tape inside the chimney to keep it warm. (Ok, just kidding :lol: )

Below are some shots of the house, Jan 31, 15 °F exterior temperature, 64 °F interior on the main floor, the Englander set with the air control just open. If you can see it in the picture, or not, there is minimal smoke out the chimney. The boiler has also been kicking on today, as usual. We have to have the boiler running or we are not warm enough. Is there a unit that can put out heat - Radiant style, and have an option for hot water that I can either put into my thermal mass or put into the domestic HW. (We have electricity and can run fans or pumps and backup electricity is on the planning list.)

 

[BrowningBAR]

Sounds like perfect job for a Garn.

Um, so, what is a Garn?

Lisa wants something that is going to fit in with the decor...There is a location on the interior of the house that seems a good fit for a unit, but it would require an exterior chimney, which I am told is not a good idea. Perhaps there is a way to run an electric heat tape inside the chimney to keep it warm. (Ok, just kidding :lol: )

Below are some shots of the house, Jan 31, 15 °F exterior temperature, 64 °F interior on the main floor, the Englander set with the air control just open. If you can see it in the picture, or not, there is minimal smoke out the chimney. The boiler has also been kicking on today, as usual. We have to have the boiler running or we are not warm enough. Is there a unit that can put out heat - Radiant style, and have an option for hot water that I can either put into my thermal mass or put into the domestic HW. (We have electricity and can run fans or pumps and backup electricity is on the planning list.)

Neat house!

So, are you leaning towards a second stove or a wood burning furnace?

 

[Zeph]

Thanks; at this time, it is still just a plywood shack with potential. I shouldn't send pics as it is still in construction, but as the Buddists say, when your house is finished, you are dead, or the house is for sale. (I may have made that up, my apologies to the Buddhists). Well I am not selling the house, and I am having fun working on it. Today, I did some travertine tile work in the master bath.

So what is my leaning? A second stove or a furnace?? My leaning is to ONE (1) wood burning appliance inside the house and I will say why.

A friend/neighbor named Bev lived in our old neighborhood she had three wood burning appliances going, some at the same time, some dying out, some going strong. This was in the late 90's. She was a gentle spirit; she did massage out of her home, no she was a really nice person, and she was a nut, her house smelled of smoke and yours truly said: "You have combustion back-drafting going on." She didn't understand. Anyway, related or not, she got breast cancer. She eschewed 'allopathic' medicine, and well, a good diet does not beat cancer and she died.

I think that combustion back-drafting is an issue and I like clean air, at least inside the house.

So, one stove; or one furnace, if I can get a good furnace (with water heat capability) that can fit into Lisa's decor.

 

[BrowningBAR]

A friend/neighbor named Bev lived in our old neighborhood she had three wood burning appliances going, some at the same time, some dying out, some going strong. This was in the late 90's. She was a gentle spirit; she did massage out of her home, no she was a really nice person, and she was a nut, her house smelled of smoke and yours truly said: "You have combustion back-drafting going on." She didn't understand. Anyway, related or not, she got breast cancer. She eschewed 'allopathic' medicine, and well, a good diet does not beat cancer and she died.

Zeph, what a guy, always coming around with funny, uplifting stories...

Wait... are you trying to tell me that if I get a third stove I'm going to get Breast Cancer?

 

[SlyFerret]

I've read through the thread and haven't noticed anywhere that the size of the house is really clarified (just "big").

From the pics though, I'm thinking that heating the house with a single stove probably isn't going to be possible.

My 30 throws some serious heat, but in your climate, and a large house... it's going to need a friend.

-SF

 

[Zeph]

A friend/neighbor named Bev lived in our old neighborhood she had three wood burning appliances going, some at the same time, some dying out, some going strong. This was in the late 90's. She was a gentle spirit; she did massage out of her home, no she was a really nice person, and she was a nut, her house smelled of smoke and yours truly said: "You have combustion back-drafting going on." She didn't understand. Anyway, related or not, she got breast cancer. She eschewed 'allopathic' medicine, and well, a good diet does not beat cancer and she died.

Zeph, what a guy, always coming around with funny, uplifting stories...

Wait... are you trying to tell me that if I get a third stove I'm going to get Breast Cancer?

Well, Browning Bar, we have hardly met...How are your stools?

 

[BrowningBAR]

A friend/neighbor named Bev lived in our old neighborhood she had three wood burning appliances going, some at the same time, some dying out, some going strong. This was in the late 90's. She was a gentle spirit; she did massage out of her home, no she was a really nice person, and she was a nut, her house smelled of smoke and yours truly said: "You have combustion back-drafting going on." She didn't understand. Anyway, related or not, she got breast cancer. She eschewed 'allopathic' medicine, and well, a good diet does not beat cancer and she died.

Zeph, what a guy, always coming around with funny, uplifting stories...

Wait... are you trying to tell me that if I get a third stove I'm going to get Breast Cancer?

Well, Browning Bar, we have hardly met...How are your stools?

My stools are about 30" high with wicker seating. Is this a cause for concern?

 

[Zeph]

I've read through the thread and haven't noticed anywhere that the size of the house is really clarified (just "big").

From the pics though, I'm thinking that heating the house with a single stove probably isn't going to be possible.

My 30 throws some serious heat, but in your climate, and a large house... it's going to need a friend.

-SF

Doggone it, do I have to say just how big? I thought everyone knows exactly how big a not so big house actually is? The house started off smaller than it is now. OK, I will confess, it is four levels at 28'x36', almost 1000 sq ft each level, depending on whether counting from the inside of the walls or the outside. The attic is a level and has a low head room. All other floors have 10 foot lids, the 2x12" floor framing is left exposed. There is lots of glass to let in the light (it is DARK here in the winter and in the summer we do not overheat as it does not get that hot here and we like the light); the glazing is triple, the lid is isocyanurate, 6", the walls are 4" sprayed Polyurethane, the under-slab insulation is 3" expanded polystyrene (a bit light there). And there is a wing that has the kitchen and woman sized pantry, for about another 500 sq ft. All together, 4500.

The float planes line up on our house for take-off as they must like a challenge. I still get sympathetic nosebleeds when I recall how much fun it was to install the dormer windows in the attic from the scaffolding on the North side. For grins, I clean the chimney by climbing out the roof window and I walk along the ridge of the house and stare at Mt Denali...without a harness.

b

 

[Zeph]

A friend/neighbor named Bev lived in our old neighborhood she had three wood burning appliances going, some at the same time, some dying out, some going strong. This was in the late 90's. She was a gentle spirit; she did massage out of her home, no she was a really nice person, and she was a nut, her house smelled of smoke and yours truly said: "You have combustion back-drafting going on." She didn't understand. Anyway, related or not, she got breast cancer. She eschewed 'allopathic' medicine, and well, a good diet does not beat cancer and she died.

Zeph, what a guy, always coming around with funny, uplifting stories...

Wait... are you trying to tell me that if I get a third stove I'm going to get Breast Cancer?

Well, Browning Bar, we have hardly met...How are your stools?

My stools are about 30" high with wicker seating. Is this a cause for concern?

That sounds about the right size, I think you will be OK. :red: